Your last generator Maintenance Run

[3930dave]

Chris - price was right on these VA meters Nik used. That supplier might have another option for frequency.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/350209-my-ice-storm-generator-lessons-2.html

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

My system uses 8w in search mode.
Diamondpilot; I think I have what you want.
I have a xantrex xw4024 a hybrid inverter system capable of handling and managing inputs from solar panels, windmills, batteries and portable generators.
I have a remote a control panel in my kitchen that displays among other things the voltage and amps on each leg along with the frequency.
One feature that is very unique feature is the Generator Assist function that will assist my (small) generator when the load exceeds a preset point preventing an overload, under voltage situation using 24v DC power from the battery pack.
This allows me to use a smaller more fuel efficient generator.
When the generator is in use it feeds into the inverter thru to the loads and uses excess available power (if any) to recharge the batteries.
I've had this system for over 2 years with no issues.
90cummins

Given what all your system does 90, 8 watts seems quite reasonable.

Is that Gen Assist trigger level fixed, or adjustable ?

Battery systems can be a great buffer, allowing gens to do what they do best - run heavy loads.

Rgds, D.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Chris - price was right on these VA meters Nik used. That supplier might have another option for frequency. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/350209-my-ice-storm-generator-lessons-2.html Rgds, D.

I saw his setup. I see he's using a separate FQ meter. It's very close to what I want.

Chris

 

[90cummins]

Given what all your system does 90, 8 watts seems quite reasonable.

Is that Gen Assist trigger level fixed, or adjustable ?

Battery systems can be a great buffer, allowing gens to do what they do best - run heavy loads.

Rgds, D.

The assist trigger level is adjustable.

 

[bcp]

I'm thinking the frequency of power outages is due to overhead lines.

Having lived in places where power is underground... power outages were very rare if at all...

Overhead lines through forested areas around here were replaced a few years ago. The new lines are larger, black, smooth, and shiny. (looks like insulation)

Outages have dropped a lot.

Bruce

 

[3930dave]

The assist trigger level is adjustable.

Easy enough to do in software..... still nice to see that it was made user accessible.

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

Overhead lines through forested areas around here were replaced a few years ago. The new lines are larger, black, smooth, and shiny. (looks like insulation)

Outages have dropped a lot.

Bruce

Hope they get to my part of Thurston County soon...

Still remember a bitter cold 7 days without power and temps in single digits.

Did have a small genset for the well which was great and one wood insert and one wood stove to take the chill off.

Of course Thuston does have no burn days too...

 

[dragoneggs]

I'm going to have to do a little research and figuring. I share a well with my neighbor. We alternate yearly on who will provide power as we both have electrical wired to it. about 4 or so years ago, I told the neighbor (suffering cancer and old age of 85) to forget about alternating because he was always worried about it. So it has been on my line since. Has passed away this fall leaving his beautiful bride of 65 years together alone. Now when we lose power I feel bad because I know she isn't getting water either. I have a mechanical interlock and run my 3000w for frig/freezer, a few lights and the TV but I always shut the well pump off. Guess I should figure out the load of the pump, eh?

 

[ultrarunner]

The well was priority one with a week long outage...

Had to be selective with the generator... have one of those 6 circuit selective setup where one or all of the circuits can be manually switched from PSE to Generator...

Two circuits for the Well

Two circuits for the the small electric water heater

One for the refrigeration and a lights

One for selective outlets including one for the shop...

The Generator is 4500 watt and loud.

Having hot/warm running water with a few lights and all is good...

Thankfully the long outage has only happened once... there have been a few all day or overnight outages since.

Though about spending the money for a two burner propane in the Kitchen with a fancy propane heater fireplace in the master suite... they don't take up much room and require no power... never got past the thinking about stage as the home has been rented the last couple of years.

 

[check]

My system uses 8w in search mode. Diamondpilot; I think I have what you want. I have a xantrex xw4024 a hybrid inverter system capable of handling and managing inputs from solar panels, windmills, batteries and portable generators. I have a remote a control panel in my kitchen that displays among other things the voltage and amps on each leg along with the frequency. One feature that is very unique feature is the Generator Assist function that will assist my (small) generator when the load exceeds a preset point preventing an overload, under voltage situation using 24v DC power from the battery pack. This allows me to use a smaller more fuel efficient generator. When the generator is in use it feeds into the inverter thru to the loads and uses excess available power (if any) to recharge the batteries. I've had this system for over 2 years with no issues. 90cummins

Sounds interesting. Will your system provide an instant voltage boost during that critical few seconds before an automatic standby generator switch starts up the generator and restores power? My generator starts within 10 seconds of a power outage, but I have been at the cattage when there are "brownouts", during which there is a momentary dip in the power, but not long enough for the automatic transfer switch to start the generator. And I believe that it is these momentary low voltage incidents hat can cause significant damage to sensitive electronic equipment, yes?

 

[Looking4new]

Sounds interesting. Will your system provide an instant voltage boost during that critical few seconds before an automatic standby generator switch starts up the generator and restores power? My generator starts within 10 seconds of a power outage, but I have been at the cattage when there are "brownouts", during which there is a momentary dip in the power, but not long enough for the automatic transfer switch to start the generator. And I believe that it is these momentary low voltage incidents hat can cause significant damage to sensitive electronic equipment, yes?

I run both my computer and satellite tv on their own APCs and they both have not suffered any problems through the Hydro Ones famous 'brown outs'. Something to think about.

 

[ultrarunner]

Ideally, battery backup/bridge for electronics... at least this is how we do things at the Hospital.

 

[Industrial Toys]

My computer is on a fairly large UPS, but generally I turn off entertainment systems and computer controlled appliances if power is sketchy or I am starting/stopping generators. I might imagine that the utility represents some kind of a large damper for noise and spikes that might not be the case when running on a generator. Sometimes though generators are blamed when electronics fail. I have seen electronics that have been continuously on for years and then when shut off, they fail when attempting to turn them back on.

 

[3930dave]

Sounds interesting. Will your system provide an instant voltage boost during that critical few seconds before an automatic standby generator switch starts up the generator and restores power? My generator starts within 10 seconds of a power outage, but I have been at the cattage when there are "brownouts", during which there is a momentary dip in the power, but not long enough for the automatic transfer switch to start the generator. And I believe that it is these momentary low voltage incidents hat can cause significant damage to sensitive electronic equipment, yes?

As the guys have commented, a UPS is a great way to take care of these issues. Alternately, a good quality surge suppressor (local, or whole house) is better than nothing. In the GTA, I've used UPSforLess years past - looks like they are still around and have New and Refurb units available.

UPSforLESS | Power Backup Experts | Home For small UPS, Costco etc has deals once in a while..... just wanted to toss this link in as a point of reference for the higher powered boxes.....

IMO, a well designed piece of electronic gear should be able to tolerate short brownouts on it's own. Much tougher to deal with is a large high voltage spike on the line - to me, that's where the protection matters the most.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I'm going to have to do a little research and figuring. I share a well with my neighbor. We alternate yearly on who will provide power as we both have electrical wired to it. about 4 or so years ago, I told the neighbor (suffering cancer and old age of 85) to forget about alternating because he was always worried about it. So it has been on my line since. Has passed away this fall leaving his beautiful bride of 65 years together alone. Now when we lose power I feel bad because I know she isn't getting water either. I have a mechanical interlock and run my 3000w for frig/freezer, a few lights and the TV but I always shut the well pump off. Guess I should figure out the load of the pump, eh?

Depending on the hp of your pump, and depth, might give your 3k a bit to chew on..... Try it on it's own and assess voltage swing when it kicks in - an analog meter can be more useful than a low cost DMM, or if you have a higher $ fast DMM etc, set it for Max/Min recording.

Definitely autothrottle off, at least till you can conclude the voltage is stable.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Overhead lines through forested areas around here were replaced a few years ago. The new lines are larger, black, smooth, and shiny. (looks like insulation)

Outages have dropped a lot.

Bruce

Line cost/mile will be higher, but that's offset in part by the utility rolling trucks less often - OT adds up fast.

Happier customers + better for the utility....... they want us to be using more than 0 kwh/day.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

My computer is on a fairly large UPS, but generally I turn off entertainment systems and computer controlled appliances if power is sketchy or I am starting/stopping generators. I might imagine that the utility represents some kind of a large damper for noise and spikes that might not be the case when running on a generator. Sometimes though generators are blamed when electronics fail. I have seen electronics that have been continuously on for years and then when shut off, they fail when attempting to turn them back on.

AFAIK, auto-transfer systems should take care of things properly on their own.

What is easy to forget is that portable generators typically spec Start and Stop with all loads disconnected. Old appliances didn't care much, but that was back when OFF meant what it said, not like today's Sleep mode.

Rgds, D.

 

[90cummins]

Sounds interesting. Will your system provide an instant voltage boost during that critical few seconds before an automatic standby generator switch starts up the generator and restores power? My generator starts within 10 seconds of a power outage, but I have been at the cattage when there are "brownouts", during which there is a momentary dip in the power, but not long enough for the automatic transfer switch to start the generator. And I believe that it is these momentary low voltage incidents hat can cause significant damage to sensitive electronic equipment, yes?

Yes:
If the utility goes down it will react within milliseconds (as a UPS) to support the loads.
It also protects against low & over voltage conditions.
Below is some data from the website.
It is very versatile and up to 3 of them can be stacked for 12kw of single phase or they can be configured for 4kw 3phase.
There is also an XW6048 6kw capacity that operates on 48 volts.

Schneider XW4024 Xantrex 4000W Hybrid Inverter/Charger 120/240V The Xantrex XW series is the ultimate inverter system for off-grid, grid-tied, and backup solar energy. With a digital control which provides rigid voltage regulation while surging to start a difficult load, the XW series provides best-in-class surge protection and transparent operation to the homeowner. XW4024 is an easy to install hybrid inverter/charger offers flexibility in configuration - 120 / 240 V AC. Use as a stand-alone inverter or with additional components such as an additional unit, charge controller, automatic generator start module, or system control panel. Features of the XW4024 120 /240 V AC; 24V DC split-phase operation 4000 Watts Dual AC inputs True sine wave output Less than 5% harmonic distortion Incorporates a DC to AC inverter, a battery charger, and an AC auto-transfer switch Capability to work with two-wire and three-wire generator starting systems XanBusTM-enabled network communication Certified to UL1741 and CSA for utility-interactive applications Also Known As: 865-1010, 865-1010-01, XW4024-120/240-60 SpecificationsBrand: Schneider Electric Input Voltage: 120 / 240VAC | VDC Power: 4000W Length: 23cm Height: 58cm Width: 41cm

90cummins

 

[dragoneggs]

Depending on the hp of your pump, and depth, might give your 3k a bit to chew on..... Try it on it's own and assess voltage swing when it kicks in - an analog meter can be more useful than a low cost DMM, or if you have a higher $ fast DMM etc, set it for Max/Min recording.

Definitely autothrottle off, at least till you can conclude the voltage is stable.

Rgds, D.

Thanks Dave I need to do that. Unfortunately I don't remember the Hp... have to dig through an old repair bill. Depth about 180ft. I know we decided to upgrade the pump a notch but don't recall. My gut tells me no problem but I will measure. Oh one more thing... just checked the service panel. I have a 30amp breaker for the well.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Thanks Dave I need to do that. Unfortunately I don't remember the Hp... have to dig through an old repair bill. Depth about 180ft. I know we decided to upgrade the pump a notch but don't recall. My gut tells me no problem but I will measure. Oh one more thing... just checked the service panel. I have a 30amp breaker for the well.

My guess is it will not cut it. My copilot had a 3.5K gen and it was all it could do to start the pump. They draw about that to start and then about 1.8K to keep running.

Chris