Your last generator Maintenance Run

[Industrial Toys]

I think I was looking at a small MQ at an auction this year. Kubota Diesel. Found out it was 3600 RPM! I mentioned it to a guy that was second away from the high bid. He didn't have a clue what I was talking about. First two questions. What's the fuel and how fast does it spin?

 

[ultrarunner]

I have seen the Whisperwatt 10k prime mover its 1800 rpm kubota

 

[ericm979]

The "ban on gas" is for new construction only. Six local governments have actually implemented it: five cities and Marin county. In some cases it's not a ban on gas but a requirement for additional insulation.
California regulators clear way for natural gas bans to take effect - SFChronicle.com

Unfortunately construction is expensive in California now, primarily due to labor costs. It's expensive to live here so you have to pay people more. $17k for a whole home generator is about in line with what I've heard from other people. Some locations in CA require load shedding devices if the generator is not big enough to run everything. That can add a few thousands to the cost due to running signal wires.

 

[grsthegreat]

The "ban on gas" is for new construction only. Six local governments have actually implemented it: five cities and Marin county. In some cases it's not a ban on gas but a requirement for additional insulation.
California regulators clear way for natural gas bans to take effect - SFChronicle.com

Unfortunately construction is expensive in California now, primarily due to labor costs. It's expensive to live here so you have to pay people more. $17k for a whole home generator is about in line with what I've heard from other people. Some locations in CA require load shedding devices if the generator is not big enough to run everything. That can add a few thousands to the cost due to running signal wires.

ya, calif regulations and the issues with trying to cope with them is why there arnt many generac dealers in that state. here, i install a 22kw unit with 4 load sheds for about $9,000 complete with gas. sometimes more depending on complexity. at any rate, i always install them by myself (no employees anymore) and can get one installed in as few as 6-8 hours if the planets align. Calif would probibly need 4 guys...3 with shovels and brooms, and 2 state inspectors, load shed and blue line drawings, 12 years of actual electrical bills showing actual demands, a porta potty set onsite, 2 job trailers for the inspectors. (No joke. i once bid a State job in Calif back in 1993ish for a simple covered patio at a school for an eating area. the bid process required 2 job trailers for the inspectors...on a 4 day job)

 

[ultrarunner]

ya, calif regulations and the issues with trying to cope with them is why there arnt many generac dealers in that state. here, i install a 22kw unit with 4 load sheds for about $9,000 complete with gas. sometimes more depending on complexity. at any rate, i always install them by myself (no employees anymore) and can get one installed in as few as 6-8 hours if the planets align. Calif would probibly need 4 guys...3 with shovels and brooms, and 2 state inspectors, load shed and blue line drawings, 12 years of actual electrical bills showing actual demands, a porta potty set onsite, 2 job trailers for the inspectors. (No joke. i once bid a State job in Calif back in 1993ish for a simple covered patio at a school for an eating area. the bid process required 2 job trailers for the inspectors...on a 4 day job)

The porta potty is no joke... the simplest permits often require it.

I pull my own permits... mostly for new service, breaker boxes, water heaters and such... so far as owner builder I have been able to make it work.

Lots of business people get in trouble with city business license or lack of one.

Old Bill is a hand sign painter... he was touching up a sign his father originally put up decades ago... boy was there a bee in his bonnet.

City inspector noticed him up on a ladder with paint brush in hand motioned him down... Inspector wanted to see his sign permit... he didn't have one and successfully made the case it was only a repair to an existing... which it was.

Then came the kicker... Old Bill who rarely works in the city did not have a Business License... he was told he needed one and subject to penalties etc... so Bill was charging $250 for the work and the business license, fees, penalties etc.. were more than he made from the job... plus he has to account for all business in the city, open his books up to audit... said HE WILL NEVER Work another job here because of it...

He said how can a one man sign painter even be in business if every city and county required such in a place like the SF Bay Area... last I heard he was moving to Oregon...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I as putting in a curtain drain at church because where we were going to build a pole barn activity center when you would dig a hole overnight water would be within 6" of the ground level. The water out of the hills follows the hard pan it seems.

I did not think that required a permit but I called the health department anyway. Sure enough that was a non issue but later the health inspector told me plumber called and reported we were putting in our own septic system without a permit. Most things get reported by people in the trade it seems.

Some things matter for safety reasons but the case of that sign seems over the top to me.

 

[90cummins]

Generator efficiency post about generator efficiency and fuel consumption.

The following is info I致e collected over time and I just rediscovered it.
It is particularly relevant to those looking to purchase a new generator with data on gallons per hour (mileage) and those that just like to know stuff.

1) A portable generator is not an efficient device. Regardless of brand or type.
2) Generator produced power (for our purposes, portable and stationary household sized) is very expensive when compared to the utility company, regardless of fuel type and fuel costs. Even with free fuel, the costs exceed the utility company's charges per KWH.
3) Inverter generators are NOT more efficient in many situations. They are quieter and better suited to very low/no load conditions.

Here are some numbers: (note, look at KWH/gal, higher is better)

Honda EU2000i inverter generator

1,600W 4.75 kWh/gallon Run time 2.97 hours/gallon.
555W 4.47 kWh/gallon Run time 8.06 hours/gallon

The Honda is almost as efficient at low loads as it is at high loads. This is fantastic when you need very little power. But it's not as good as a conventional genset at high loads, as we will see below.

Generac GP3250
2300W, 5.53 KWH/gallon
1900W, 5.35 KWH/gallon
1150W, 4.45 KWH/gallon
744W, 3.84 KWH/gallon

Yamaha EF3000is
2300W, 4.50 KWH/gallon
1900W, 4.42 KWH/gallon
1150W, 4.38 KWH/gallon
744W, 3.89 KWH/gallon

Notice the inverter Yamaha is not better than the Generac until it's at 1/4 load or lower. At which point, you will save some fuel.

Listeroid 6/1 diesel with belt drive ST generator head (notice that it's twice as efficient as the Honda/Yamaha inverter generators when heavily loaded, and exceeds the inverter's efficiency all the way down to 500W) (at which point, it consumes about 1/10 gallon per hour, on par with the Honda)
3000W, 8.57 KWH/gallon
2000W, 7.69 KWH/gallon
1000W, 5.71 KWH/gallon
500W, 4.2 KWH/gallon Run time 8 hours per gallon (exactly the same as the Honda, this showcases the diesel's efficiency)

15000W Generac portable (gasoline) (note, the bigger the generator, the more efficient)
15KW, 8.3KWH/gal
7.5KW, 5.9KWH/gal
3750W, 3.8KWH/gal

30,000W John Deere turbodiesel generator (note, diesels are often very efficient at a wide range of loads, and sometimes worse at very high loads)
30KW, 11.4KWH/gal
15KW, 11.5KWH/gal

200,000W JD turbodiesel generator
200KW, 15.5KWH/gal
100KW, 15.5KWH/gal (or roughly 20c/KWH at $3/gal) (still double the local utilities price, and the unit's capital costs are enormous)







Note, even the DIY Lister diesel generator makes only 8KWH/gallon ($3/gal) or roughly 40 cents per KWH. Almost 4 times more expensive than my local utility company.

Also, understand that (my favorite) small "suitcase type" inverter/generators have a place. When running a fridge, for example, the load is not constant, with much of the day having no or low load. So the inverter generator idles down under low/no load conditions while still producing 120V 60HZ. This is a BIG DEAL when running a fridge for (example) a month. As the total fuel consumption will be considerably lower than a conventional 3600RPM direct drive generator. How much lower depends on load.

Put another way, "IF" you are running constantly high loads, such as driving an air conditioner in death valley, an inverter/generator will not save you fuel. It may be better to choose a conventional generator in this case.

The above info is not mine I’m just passing it on.

90cummins

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[LouNY]

Nice information. I am still kicking myself for not getting a couple of the Lister type engines when the price was good several years ago.
Especially a couple of the "big" twins.

 

[ultrarunner]

With kW costs over 30 cents and as high as 34 cents depending on tier and after all taxes and fees the difference isn't as pronounced everywhere... of course I was paying $4+ a gallon just recently for fuel so another factor.

I still love the old rural Blacksmith that is next to my cousin's farm... a small flume powered waterwheel power the shop overhead transmission line shafts including generator... the generator has been there in one form or another almost 100 years... the surplus electricity heats a water tank used as a buffer to provide domestic hot water and radiant heat...

I asked about maintenance… was told keeping the bearing cups greased and changing out the brushes and occasional belt replacement is about it...

Drill Press, Assorted Blowers, Hammer, Lights, Heat and old Lathe all from a waterwheel and flume... works around the clock only in very rare instances has ice stopped the works because the water moves fast enough so most winters are not a problem...

 

[Blaszer]

90cummins, Very interesting numbers.

I am planning on doing a load test on our standby generator tomorrow. Going to let it start up on a transfer switch test and then cut the main breaker and go to full "Emergency" standby power. Then put an amp clamp right above the transfer switch. Going to attempt to keep it at 90-95% load for 2 hours, so around 275 amps (it is rated at 292 amps). I will take some photos.

I really would love to set up an electronic fuel meter to see how much it is consuming, as of now the best I can do is measure the tank depth before and after and get a close estimate of fuel usage per hour.