Your last generator Maintenance Run

[daugen]

when my portable Westinghouse generator is running, is it charging the battery?

I have a Noco charger also, I think a 3 or 5, but it has the conditioning cycle at the end which is supposed to
help loosen deposits on plates and make the batteries last longer. Like cleaning the hull of a boat.
I wish one of the internet testing websites tested small battery chargers. It's surprising how long the old names stuck with old tech.
And many still do. Smart chargers are well worth the money. But I wouldn't throw away the old buzzbox if you need something
charged in a hurry. Three to four times a year I put the Noco on the gen battery for a couple of hours.

I'm not sure how a smart charger deals with AGM batteries other than charging at a different rate. Does anyone know if the final conditioning cycle
accomplishes anything worthwhile on AGM batteries?

particularly with those larger Generacs, bad battery, no go.
I wonder if anyone has used a Li-on battery in a household gen.

Dave, are certain battery types better for your much colder temps?

 

[LittleBill21]

when my portable Westinghouse generator is running, is it charging the battery?

I have a Noco charger also, I think a 3 or 5, but it has the conditioning cycle at the end which is supposed to
help loosen deposits on plates and make the batteries last longer. Like cleaning the hull of a boat.
I wish one of the internet testing websites tested small battery chargers. It's surprising how long the old names stuck with old tech.
And many still do. Smart chargers are well worth the money. But I wouldn't throw away the old buzzbox if you need something
charged in a hurry. Three to four times a year I put the Noco on the gen battery for a couple of hours.

I'm not sure how a smart charger deals with AGM batteries other than charging at a different rate. Does anyone know if the final conditioning cycle
accomplishes anything worthwhile on AGM batteries?

particularly with those larger Generacs, bad battery, no go.
I wonder if anyone has used a Li-on battery in a household gen.

Dave, are certain battery types better for your much colder temps?

your generator should charge the battery, you can check with a volt meter

a equalize charge is actually bad for an agm, and should not be apart of the charge profile

li-on needs special care for a cold weather environment, not something I would recommend for a Generator standby

 

[grsthegreat]

Portable generator batteries tend to be dead when needed, unless the gen came with a 120v charger, or you keep battery on a trickle charger. Standby units use a standard lead acid car style battery, and the generator charge system keeps it nicely topped off. you can use agm style batteries on the generac standby, but I personally dont see any benefit, as a properly charged lead acid will last 5-7 years and is way way cheaper.

 

[PILOON]

Portable generator batteries tend to be dead when needed, unless the gen came with a 120v charger, or you keep battery on a trickle charger. Standby units use a standard lead acid car style battery, and the generator charge system keeps it nicely topped off. you can use agm style batteries on the generac standby, but I personally dont see any benefit, as a properly charged lead acid will last 5-7 years and is way way cheaper.

With U there.
I have an intelligent 1 amp charger permanently wired to my battery so it will always be fully charged.

Also since my generator is in my attached shed I made a 12 inch hole and have a large muffin fan installed to evacuate any escaped exhaust fumes.
My genny provides both 110and 220,( both usable while running), so the fan and an overhanging light make life easier.
The setup is then permanently wired to an approved manual switchover box.

LOL, the only thing missing is the human to operate my system which makes me the volunteer.

 

[3930dave]

I'm not sure how a smart charger deals with AGM batteries other than charging at a different rate. Does anyone know if the final conditioning cycle
accomplishes anything worthwhile on AGM batteries?

particularly with those larger Generacs, bad battery, no go.
I wonder if anyone has used a Li-on battery in a household gen.

Dave, are certain battery types better for your much colder temps?

AGM will use a different charge profile, optimally.

Didn't quickly find the curves I was looking for, but something from Rolls:

AGM Charging

I still like Flooded Lead Acid (traditional olde school) batteries for what they are, re. $ vs. performance. Cold Winters, I've seen FLA batteries freeze - a buddy had an Oldsmobile with a frozen battery, but it still started his V6 - go figure.....

SAE 101..... alternators are temperature compensated for FLA...... voltage ramps up as temperature goes down (FLA need the higher voltage to charge properly). So... a properly charged FLA battery won't normally freeze, outside of a bad Siberian Winter..... AGM MIGHT tolerate low temperature abuse a bit better, but it's too expensive a test for me to play with.....

Some plug-in AC chargers may be temperature compensated, but that issue will be a factor in the charger having a Low Temperature Limit spec'd.

Older Li batteries have low temperature concerns, as compared to FLA. If you need your tools running at O Dark Thirty onsite, you don't leave them in your truck overnight up here in the dead of Winter.....

I'm not up on what they are using now, but NiCad was the workhorse battery in Telecomm for the longest time. Tough batteries, that could take a lot of abuse, and tolerated low temperatures pretty well too.

All the electronics on a modern vehicle can drain a parked car's battery pretty quick..... all those folks not driving much these days would be well served by getting some of the decent basic chargers we've been comparing on here lately....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

when my portable Westinghouse generator is running, is it charging the battery?

Check the manual to be sure..... many portables don't charge the onboard battery. The ones I've noticed that charge - Hondas, and some of the big Generac portables (?).

I've still got reasonable upper body strength (wrt. age), and healthy shoulders, but even with that luck, I really appreciate how well designed the pull-start is on my 7kw Briggs. WAY easier to pull, than many smaller engines I've started.

Rgds, D.

 

[Patrick Herd]

This is a slight tangent from generators but I think relevant so bear with me: Interestingly for whatever reason the 12V auxiliary battery charge profile on a lot of EV systems is useless to put it politely. Our Nissan leaf only briefly pushes the battery to 14.4V after "booting" the car, it then quickly drops to about 13.2V. With regular use this generally isn't a problem, but Leafs in particularly are very prone to sudden FLA battery dead syndrome... Particularly cold weather and when sitting for a while.

I think the main issue is that the system relies too much on coulomb counting via the current transformer and not enough on how much charge current is there at 14.4V.
During the last Covid lockdown here in NZ the Leaf (normally in daily use) wouldn't boot after I think it was only 5 days sitting. Reminded me to keep putting the trickle charger on it every six months for an equalisation charge

 

[grsthegreat]

Check the manual to be sure..... many portables don't charge the onboard battery. The ones I've noticed that charge - Hondas, and some of the big Generac portables (?).

I've still got reasonable upper body strength (wrt. age), and healthy shoulders, but even with that luck, I really appreciate how well designed the pull-start is on my 7kw Briggs. WAY easier to pull, than many smaller engines I've started.

Rgds, D.

My 4 year old briggs 6.5 kw portable starts nearly every time with 1 to 2 pulls, and also pulls easily. I use that one around property.

 

[3930dave]

This is a slight tangent from generators but I think relevant so bear with me: Interestingly for whatever reason the 12V auxiliary battery charge profile on a lot of EV systems is useless to put it politely. Our Nissan leaf only briefly pushes the battery to 14.4V after "booting" the car, it then quickly drops to about 13.2V. With regular use this generally isn't a problem, but Leafs in particularly are very prone to sudden FLA battery dead syndrome... Particularly cold weather and when sitting for a while.

I think the main issue is that the system relies too much on coulomb counting via the current transformer and not enough on how much charge current is there at 14.4V.
During the last Covid lockdown here in NZ the Leaf (normally in daily use) wouldn't boot after I think it was only 5 days sitting. Reminded me to keep putting the trickle charger on it every six months for an equalisation charge

That's one thing I haven't looked at..... how exactly the 12v battery is charged while mobile in an EV.

Total guess.... they have the 12v batt on a "starvation" diet, so they can eek out marginally further distance in mileage tests....

Rgds, D

 

[daugen]

On my Ariens EFI snowblower the engine does NOT charge the proprietary 7.2v battery (think first gen Makita stick battery) that is tucked
up inside handle. Must be charged with their proprietary charger. About the dumbest design I ever saw.
Why not just power the efi unit with 12V and have a regular battery?
The EFI Honda 389 is a real gem of an engine, and makes for a very expensive generator. I bet their system is 12V.
I thought the charging circuit were those little magnets around the flywheel.?

 

[3930dave]

I'd say mostly just Cost d.

Wall-wart/off-board chargers are cheap, and easy to warranty-replace if needed.

Rgds, D.

 

[Popgadget]

On my Ariens EFI snowblower the engine does NOT charge the proprietary 7.2v battery (think first gen Makita stick battery) that is tucked up inside handle.

Actually, I think that it does charge it, but it needs the battery to start and run. So if the battery is dead, you are dead in the water.
I might be wrong, but that’s what I remember from looking at the manual when we were troubleshooting it.

 

[daugen]

well I hope to never take it apart to see Paul. Ariens provides an external small black box charger for the internal battery.
But then again my generator also came with a separate tiny charger and a charging port on the panel, so that clearly charges the battery.
Now I'm not sure if they provide an external charger, do they provide a charge while run feature?

The big issue to me is regulation. Will it shut off entirely and not fry the battery. The "automatic" ones were/are supposed to.
I'd much rather use a better quality smart charger to charge it.
I particularly like the ones that somehow autodetect what kind of battery they are hooked up to.

always used to confuse me what a gel battery was. Kind of an agm? Like so many things, too bad they didn't agree on one voltage.

my gen is around 14hp and a little much to pull start. I have a remote start for it I've never used.
Honestly don't trust it, want to go out and pull off the cover, make sure there are no critters living under there, and then
I'll start it up with the big pushbutton. So far on propane it has always started within two seconds. Takes a little time for the fuel to make
its way in, probably worse in very cold weather. Less umph behind it.

this reminds me of snowblower engines not having air cleaners. I always thought that was penny wise and pound foolish.

might search for electrical schematic on both the snowblower and generator to see if they incorporate a charging circuit. If they have one,
think I can assume they have hooked it up to the battery

 

[3930dave]

Long detailed article on the blackout in TX last Winter.

The Texas Electric Grid Failure Was a Warm-up

A good example of how bad things can get, when you are not prepared to deal with cold temperatures.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

this reminds me of snowblower engines not having air cleaners. I always thought that was penny wise and pound foolish.

might search for electrical schematic on both the snowblower and generator to see if they incorporate a charging circuit. If they have one,
think I can assume they have hooked it up to the battery

I like proper filtration on everything, but I sort of grok the choice with snowblowers...... little dirt in the air compared to what summer engines deal with, and I think the concern with snowblowers (other than people just ignoring filter changes on everything) is running for hours in blizzard conditions - an air filter could ice over or pack up with snow w/o the operator noticing. Not great to suck snow in "raw", but if it keeps running through terrible conditions, that is one less complaining customer.

I haven't looked closely at snowblowers in quite a while, but I know the older ones had (at least as an option) 120VAC starters on bigger stuff here. Wouldn't help if the grid was down, but guys I've known who used them said the AC starters worked fine.

Start your generator (for exercise) to start your snowblower ?

Rgds, D.

 

[grsthegreat]

My snowblower has 120v starter. No battery to worry about. If i stop it while blowing snow it pull starts real easy 1 pull.

 

[ultrarunner]

Long detailed article on the blackout in TX last Winter.

The Texas Electric Grid Failure Was a Warm-up

A good example of how bad things can get, when you are not prepared to deal with cold temperatures.

Rgds, D.

I'm guessing Texas has not banned Wood Stoves and Fire Places...

 

[3930dave]

My snowblower has 120v starter. No battery to worry about. If i stop it while blowing snow it pull starts real easy 1 pull.

They do seem to design most blowers well.... even gearheads don't have much patience for a balky engine when the mercury drops out of sight....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I'm guessing Texas has not banned Wood Stoves and Fire Places...

You couldn't give me enough kevlar to convince me to table that legislation in TX !

Rgds, D

 

[PILOON]

As U know most filters are fine porous foam elements or paper.
With all that snow flying around those filters would clog up rapidly.

Even some large tractors can come to a halt from snow clogged filters if they are located so as to allow ingesting blowing snow.