Zero Turn traction issues

[JJZ 109]

Not that it helps the OP, but my experience owning 2 zero turns of different brands showed me that on wet grass or the slightest mud traction was horrible. More aggressive tires did little to help. In fact they only tore up grass when making a "zero turn".
I got frustrated enough to sell the Ferris and buy a John Deer X394 four wheel steer tractor. Of course you can't spin it on a dime like a Z turn, but it doesn't get stuck nearly as easy and doesn't tear up the grass when the wheel is cranked. The hydraulic deck raise/lower and power steering were added bonuses. I find that my mowing time didn't increase by enough to concern me.

 

[mikester]

I bought the entry level Ferris S400 this spring for mowing our fairly hilly 1.5 acre or so "lawn" area.

I love the cut, the speed and the maneuverability, but the traction (negative traction?) going downhill is near ridiculous. The only way to go down our steeper slopes is to start at a crawl and slowly speed up, or you end up skidding/slewing down the hill. And forget about stopping in the middle of even a moderate downgrade and turning to do the next cut.

A few options I've thought of:

• Add some weight - load the tires and/or add wheel weights.
• Chains (seems bizarre to me on grass, but I've seen a few posts suggesting it)
• Simplest yet - lower the air pressure in the tires. TBH I haven't even checked it - maybe it's way over what it's "supposed" to be.
• Get a mmm for our B3030. Not inclined to this route because the cab makes it awkward to get close to the many "things" around the property, plus I'm not crazy about driving a 3000# machine all over our lawn on a regular basis.
• Get a traditional "lawn tractor". Not crazy about this, as I have no idea whether the traction issue is any better, and it will certainly be slower than a zero turn (although it will be my wife mowing, and time is not a big issue for her). However, this is the option my wife would be most apt to pick on her own...

We already have the Ferris, and it's a pretty nicely built machine. I'd rather use it if possible. Forum thoughts?

(FYI, the GC2300 will be going down the road next year, so using a mmm on it is not a realistic option, although I could keep it).

Check out this thread. I put WT300 bar tires on my ZT and the difference in control,on hills is amazing
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...385191-running-tractor-tires-zero-turn-3.html

 

[Fuddy1952]

I have two Cub Cadet zero turns, older RZT50 and a Z-Force. The RZT the front wheels are just casters like on a grocery cart. The Z-Force the wheels steer. I use the RZT on really hilly dangerous areas. Picture you see I made a pass days ago along fence line. I go slow, wheels are straight. I lean way over. If it happens to turn going downhill I simply circle around going the other way. On really steep hilly areas I cut straight downhill, just like I do on other pastures when I bush hog. That to me is common sense safety. You won't flip a mower or tractor by going straight down hill. I turn at level bottom, circle around making another pass down.

 

[Bigfoot62]

The new Bad Boy Outlaw XP comes with Reaper turf tires. Mine is a 2016 and didn't have those, but they look impressive. Something like that might help.

 

[BoylermanCT]

Weight is your friend on hills. I had a 650 lb Hustler Raptor SD zero turn, and would slide down the hills in my field, and if I tried going across the hills, the mower would just slide to the side. I recently traded it in for a Hustler X-One that weighs 1250 lbs. I no longer slide on the hills, I can stop going downhill etc.

That said, I would be careful about adding weight to the mower. The transaxles are designed to move X amount of weight (mower plus you). Going above that limit could shorten their lives. I think you need a few hundred extra pounds to notice a performance difference.

Different tires will also make a big difference. Chevron tires that come on many mowers don't do well on hills.

 

[Locoweed]

I'll agree with shortening the life drive units. I added bar tires + 60 lbs of weights to my Hustler Fastrack Super Duty. I guess that overloaded the capabilities of the drive units. After replacing 2 drive units ($$) I removed the weights, but left the bar tires on. I quit doing steep hills with zero turn. IMHO they are best used for reasonably flat land.

 

[MultiMow]

How about buying front brakes for your Z?

Tedbrakes.com

One of my favorite safety advancements... but it only works on units that already have some measure of traction. Pretty sure the OP doesn't have much to go on.

 

[MultiMow]

Thank you, Multimow.

One final question. Back when I used to hire a mowing company to do my one really steep hill, two young guys on z-turns would do it. They would zip up and down and around really fast with nary a problem. Is this simply because of having pro-grade machines, experience, or both?

Indeed, both. The best ZTR in world is only as good as its operator.

 

[MultiMow]

MULTIMOW,
I don't have a lot of experience w/ all the mowing variations you describe, as most of my lawn is mowed w/ a 50 hp utility tractor and either a 90 inch or 110 in finish mower (rear 3 point mount). However I can speak to the deere rider comment, and DISAGREE. I do the close "clean-up" mowing w/ a deere X340, 25 Kawa engine and my cutting height is about 3-1/2" and I have no issues w/ cut quality.
Their line-up is extensive but perhaps the "Broad Brush" is the incorrect tool to describe the entire product spectrum.

In my firsthand experience, I've seen all their lineup in action. I've never seen a John Deere of any type leave a clean cut over 2.5 inches. The decks that will mow tall growth at any decent rate (7 Iron pro-grade) leave a horribly uneven cut, and standard yellow decks are laughable in overgrowth. My old boss still brags about his 920 ZTR. I've never seen his unit, but I've seen the exact same model cut alongside an eXmark and a Scag... no comparison.

 

[MultiMow]

Delete

 

[4570Man]

I’ve got the 28hp Kubota diesel in mine. I’d sure hate to feed the 30 hp gasser.

 

[stevem5215]

Thanks. Ugh. Sounds like I bought the wrong Z-turn.

Take it back. Most dealers offer returns within a period of time like 30 days without penalty.

It sounds to me like that Z160 is good on slopes. And that's hard to find in a ZTR.

Steve with a Simplicity ZT-2500 that's just "ok" on the slope behind my house and it too does get out of control coming down the hill as well.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Mine is the Husqvarna Z554 Professional Model.

Did fine on the slopes yesterday, even though the grass was a little wet. Maybe this model is a little heavier duty?

The Husqvarna Z500 series zero turn mower represents the latest design focused on productivity, durability and cut quality. Providing extreme comfort, high ground speeds and superior traction adds up to exceptional mowing efficiency. Industrial strength throughout the entire design assures of a long & durable service life in commercial mowing applications. Careful design consideration provides unprecedented ease in serviceability.

Motor/engine manufacturer
Kohler
Motor/engine model
ECV740
Power output
25 hp
Cutting width
54 in

 

[Gem99ultra]

One of my favorite safety advancements... but it only works on units that already have some measure of traction. Pretty sure the OP doesn't have much to go on.

Tedbrakes sure sounds like the solution. The video is from 2011; I wonder if any manufacturers picked up on the idea?

 

[cdb2]

I've got 2 acres with pretty steep hills, enough so that the ride-on lawn tractor I used for years felt too tippy trying to mow across the hills and I had lots of traction problems going either up or down them. I switched to a lawn service for a couple of years after that and watched them zip around the hills on ZTRs week after week with no trouble. So despite reading lots of warnings about ZTRs and hills, when I decided to start mowing it again I went with a Ferriz ZTR.

My personal experience is that I much prefer the ZTR to the ride-on tractor on the hills. Maybe it's the weight (I think the Ferris is around 1300lbs) or the wider stance compared to the little lawn tractor I used to have, but it's much more stable to me. I also have much better traction going up hills and a way smoother ride.

That said, I took it real slow and careful for a few months getting to know how it handled on the hills. You learn pretty quick what works and what doesn't and it's definitely helpful if you have a safe area to practice working on hills. Most important, I don't mow when it's wet and I never mow down hill or even turn down hill unless its a shallow slope. In both cases you can lose control very fast and it's hard to recover especially if you are pointed down hill. Like a previous poster said, side-to-side works great on all but the steepest hills I have, you actually have a lot of control over direction and traction just using the high-side drive. In particular anytime I start to feel like I'm close to losing traction I turn up-hill by retarding the high-side drive, that works for me to regain full control. For the very steep hill I have, I mow straight up and creep it down backwards.

Now I'm not making any recommendations to buy a ZTR for hilly terrain or not, but if you already have one all may not be lost. If you can safely practice to get some experience with it on hills you might find that it works out well for you.

 

[showcattle]

I just bought one of these last spring. Sticks to my hills great. Zero turn with a steering wheel, with a very low center of gravity. I was skeptical at first, but now I love it. I call it my "Forrest Gump zero turn ".

 

[Coyote machine]

To GWHT, (Girl who has tractor) and ZT, I would suggest you try, (test drive) my mower brand/model, and if it does everything you want it to, if you can, return your very nice, but evidently incorrect choice ZT for a Cub Cadet Pro-Z 160.
Seriously, I cannot think of any reason anyone test driving the mower wouldn't do what I did: say, "I'll take it!"

My selling dealer demoed it for me on some very steep hills at his shop location and made it turn and go up and down the hills like I would never dare to drive it, without breaking a sweat. I drove it, then my wife drove it too and gave it her thumbs up too. I came back with a trailer to take it home the same day.
Just saying, this mower saves all the messing with different tires, weights, adding brakes, whatever one can think of, and delivers the whole package for way less money than a lot of pro machines, regardless of brand.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

I have driven a zero turn a couple times on my hills and it scarred me, I found myself avoiding hills so I bought a 99 JD 455 and have been exceptionally happy with it. I never have to fear hills.

Anyway, I wish they make more zero turns with steering wheels, then I might consider one.

If I had a zero turn I planned to keep, I would put ags on it or sell it for a 4wd F935 or something like that.

 

[dnw64]

Lots of ideas - thanks.

If I add weight it will be to the wheels/tires (liquid ballast and wheel weights), not the chassis. Except maybe to the front - my son has a Husky ZT that has weight on the front which was added to counter the weight of a bagger that had been previously installed. He says it adds quite a bit of stability (he used to run commercial ZTs for a lawn service).

There are several places where going sideways is simply not practical, because they are "boxed in" at the ends - you need to go either up or down at the beginning and end. However, there are some sections where it is feasible, and I will see how it works there.

The bar tires make sense as well, and if I go that route I think I would put them on "backwards" to help with braking as opposed to acceleration.

I guess the first step is to see how comfortable my wife is with the general operation of a ZT. I will dial back the controls to limit top speed to start, and see how it goes.

I guess after reading all the responses, if I were starting over I would probably have bought a new mmm for my MF GC2300.

Regarding the TedBrakes - great idea, but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Also, isn't that the guy from Everything Attachments? Not that it "matters", just interesting.

Thanks again.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Not really interested in buying an $8k mowing machine and having to add another $1k or more for an adaptation (Ted brakes). Turns out my z-turn seems to be able to deal with my hills, though with a pretty big learning curve, and more danger than I anticipated. Of course almost nothing is truly safe on steep hills, except maybe a Power-Trac or Ventrac.