edumacate me on horse power

[Egon]

Golly, again some questions that really have no definitive answer!

One thing is positive, a piston driven steam engine developed maximum torque at zero RPM just as an electric motor does.

The internal combustion engine will develop its highest torque at whatever RPM the engine/fuel used is designed for.

Some combustion/fuel processes are easier to work with or may be more efficient for certain applications than other systems.

The answer lies "Blowing in the Wind" Or is it under "THE BONNET"

 

[workinallthetime]

Huh? My 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel pickup has more than 300 hp, more than 500 ft-lb torque and gets more than 22 mpg at 70 mph on the freeway (empty). It has towed two trailers one 2000# and the other loaded between 8000-10,000 pounds for 43% of it's miles and has averaged 17.59 mpg since new. It replaced a 1/2 ton 4x4 gas truck with 290 hp, 300 ft-lb that got 18.5 on the freeway (empty). It towed the same two trailers for 28% of it's miles and averaged 16.48 mpg since new.

My truck and both tractors are diesel...
jb

hey thats great for you !! and your own a tree farm so you need the power and can justify the added expense of purchasing a diesel and the maintenace on a diesel truck. I dont own a farm and I haul a bx23 kubota around so i cant justify the major additional cost of owning a diesel pickup.

I can say I almost went diesel this time for the power until the 07 gmc sierra came out. 367 hp, 375 lb-ft torque, 10,500 towing capacity, displacement on demand (a v8 thats runs as a v4 when you dont need the power), and 5/100 warranty. That and the price no way I was buying a diesel.

As for the cost i refer to when buying a diesel pickup truck i will explain.
1st upfront its a 6000.00 option
2nd diesel fuel cost more than gas anymore and has for awhile
3rd twice the oil at every oil change
4th fuel filter every 10-15k (new gas burners dont have fuel filters)
5th fuel additives to keep system clean, lubricated, and alge free
6th should anything fail after warranty its going to cost a hole lote more to get fixed.

now with all that said i dont want to start any arguments on here or wet on anyones post tosties. I have been a diesel tech for 12 years at a gm dealer I work on everything form a 7500 kodiac/topkick with a cat engine to a 1/2 ton g can with a 350. I am bias twords gm products because thats all i know and i care to know. Combined over 3 trucks ive but about 300k on gm 6.0 and never had one of mine fail in any way

have a great day and good luck farmin trees

 

[DieselPower]

workinallthetime -

As for the cost i refer to when buying a diesel pickup truck i will explain.
1st upfront its a 6000.00 option
No argument there.
2nd diesel fuel cost more than gas anymore and has for awhile
That's true. But I get 1 1/2 to 2X the fuel economy over the gasser.
3rd twice the oil at every oil change
And the oil change intervals are greater than the gasser. With UOA's going 20-30K + is no problem.
4th fuel filter every 10-15k (new gas burners dont have fuel filters)
Can't say I have ever seen any vehicle that did not have a fuel filter. I did work for GM up until a couple of years ago and everything had one then. I don't think I would even want a vehicle without a fuel filter. If it didn't have one I would sure in the heck be installing one.
5th fuel additives to keep system clean, lubricated, and alge free
Only if you have fuel supplier problems. As long as the fuel you buy is properly treated by the distributor you really shouldn't need a additive.
6th should anything fail after warranty its going to cost a hole lote more to get fixed.
Also true. However you can expect to have longer engine life with a diesel. My one Ford E-Super Duty cube van with a 444E just turned over 300K last month. The only thing I have ever done to it is a water pump. I would like to see a gas engine go that long pulling 12,000 pounds around all day.

 

[DmansPadge]

4th fuel filter every 10-15k (new gas burners dont have fuel filters)
Can't say I have ever seen any vehicle that did not have a fuel filter. I did work for GM up until a couple of years ago and everything had one then. I don't think I would even want a vehicle without a fuel filter. If it didn't have one I would sure in the heck be installing one.

I have heard that the new gas GM's don't have an inline filter.... although I haven't varified it. I did also hear that they have one in the tank.... that sounds like fun... drop the tank to change the fuel filter??

 

[RalphVa]

It's mostly in the gearing. Tractors are geared to go slow and generally have engines designed for a bit more torque for each hp.

My wife's car has 65 hp and is a 24 year old diesel. It'll climb hills at highway speed about as well as a typical 200 hp gas engined car. Let it drop below about 65 mph on a long hill though, and it's down to 3rd gear and about 55-60 mph maximum speed and NO acceleration.

Ralph

 

[workinallthetime]

2nd diesel fuel cost more than gas anymore and has for awhile
That's true. But I get 1 1/2 to 2X the fuel economy over the gasser.

Depending on load and fuel blend due to climate I’m sure.
3rd twice the oil at every oil change
And the oil change intervals are greater than the gasser. With UOA's going 20-30K + is no problem.

I hope you don’t have a engine failure going that long, I have seen warranty claims get denied due to lack of following manufactures specified guidelines on maintenance, Even when the failure could not be directly related to the maintenance.
4th fuel filter every 10-15k (new gas burners dont have fuel filters)
Can't say I have ever seen any vehicle that did not have a fuel filter. I did work for GM up until a couple of years ago and everything had one then. I don't think I would even want a vehicle without a fuel filter. If it didn't have one I would sure in the heck be installing one.

This started in late 2003, I don’t really like the idea myself but my 2004 Denali has 65k on it and still runs great. I also know that Dodge has done it to some truck models but they have an actual in tank filter, the gm filter is built into the fuel pump.

5th fuel additives to keep system clean, lubricated, and alge free
Only if you have fuel supplier problems. As long as the fuel you buy is properly treated by the distributor you really shouldn't need a additive.

LOL now that’s the best, I have seen so many contaminated fuel systems on trucks its not even funny. Diesel fuel hydrates naturally which in turn grows alge. No manufacturer is responsible for what you put in your tank so that repair is all coming out of your pocket while you fight with the gas station. I herd once that Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas had the highest percentage of fuel related problems in the country. So maybe that’s not an issue for you but around here it is.
6th should anything fail after warranty its going to cost a hole lote more to get fixed.
Also true. However you can expect to have longer engine life with a diesel. My one Ford E-Super Duty cube van with a 444E just turned over 300K last month. The only thing I have ever done to it is a water pump. I would like to see a gas engine go that long pulling 12,000 pounds around all day

I work on a couple of old dump trucks with 366 big blocks in them, mostly just tune ups and minor things but I dont know how much a load of sheetrock and construction debris ways, but they are full size dump trucks which pull a new holland skid steer to every job

When my little operation is big enough to support a larger tractor I will buy a bigger truck, 4500/5500 maybe an 8.1 gas big block or a Durimax but that’s a while down the road. There is a lot more power to be had out of the diesel but do I need it, is it worth it since I only buy new and don’t keep my trucks more than a couple years? Your points are all very true and you sound like me a year ago but after I put the pencil to the paper stepping up to a ¾ ton diesel just wasn’t worth it to me. I’ve seen a lot in 12 years some I don’t ever want to see again, lol.

 

[gemini5362]

Huh? My 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel pickup has more than 300 hp, more than 500 ft-lb torque and gets more than 22 mpg at 70 mph on the freeway (empty). It has towed two trailers one 2000# and the other loaded between 8000-10,000 pounds for 43% of it's miles and has averaged 17.59 mpg since new. It replaced a 1/2 ton 4x4 gas truck with 290 hp, 300 ft-lb that got 18.5 on the freeway (empty). It towed the same two trailers for 28% of it's miles and averaged 16.48 mpg since new.

My truck and both tractors are diesel...
jb

hey thats great for you !! and your own a tree farm so you need the power and can justify the added expense of purchasing a diesel and the maintenace on a diesel truck. I dont own a farm and I haul a bx23 kubota around so i cant justify the major additional cost of owning a diesel pickup.

I can say I almost went diesel this time for the power until the 07 gmc sierra came out. 367 hp, 375 lb-ft torque, 10,500 towing capacity, displacement on demand (a v8 thats runs as a v4 when you dont need the power), and 5/100 warranty. That and the price no way I was buying a diesel.

As for the cost i refer to when buying a diesel pickup truck i will explain.
1st upfront its a 6000.00 option
2nd diesel fuel cost more than gas anymore and has for awhile
3rd twice the oil at every oil change
4th fuel filter every 10-15k (new gas burners dont have fuel filters)
5th fuel additives to keep system clean, lubricated, and alge free
6th should anything fail after warranty its going to cost a hole lote more to get fixed.

now with all that said i dont want to start any arguments on here or wet on anyones post tosties. I have been a diesel tech for 12 years at a gm dealer I work on everything form a 7500 kodiac/topkick with a cat engine to a 1/2 ton g can with a 350. I am bias twords gm products because thats all i know and i care to know. Combined over 3 trucks ive but about 300k on gm 6.0 and never had one of mine fail in any way

have a great day and good luck farmin trees

I am not really sure which v8 you are talking about the biggest horsepower ratings I see in a sierra gas engine is 300 horsepower. that is with the 6.0 liter engine. The duramax diesel engine is only 360 horsepower, you are getting more than that with a stock gasoline engine ?

I have a duramax engine and you are write it is a lot of money. I have owned gasoline pickups that worked fine for hauling what i wanted to. but not that get 17 and 18 miles to the gallon. You might be correct about the maintenance costs. But personally I would not trade my duramax for a gasoline engine pickup ever. Depending on which dealership you work at I might have bought it from your dealership since I bought it in tulsa.

 

[john_bud]

Workin,

Good points. Yes, Diesels are great, have lots of advantages and some disadvantages too. Depends on how you look at them. I do know that trading the 5.3 off for the 6.6 diesel was a big change. The 5.3 would get 7-8 mpg and the duramax gets 12-14 mpg towing the same loads on the same roads. And at that time, gas was more expensive. Who knew?

I haven't been following the new tech closely. The variable displacement does sound good. The electronics and hardware have come a LONG way from the V8-6-4 that the General put out in the 70's (or was it 80's?). But, it will still be making a giant sucking sound when pulling 10k down the road and up a hill.

I do have a Q for a GM diesel tech. The fuel gage in my 2003 chev duramax shortbox quit. Shows dead empty all the time. I've been snooping around for prices on the sending unit, but keep fainting when I see them. Are they really that spendy ($250)? Ouch! Will be saving pennies ....

Oh, you forgot to mention that the hard working gas engines in dump trucks have super low compression ratios. Like 7:1 so they don't melt the pistons when running at full throttle for long periods. That affects the fuel economy a bit.

And in case no one else said it, Welcome to TBN!

jb

 

[workinallthetime]

I didnt say the 366 was a good choice for anything, its really even to heavy for a boat anchor. Ive seen the alspluna tree service trucks blow one engine after another due to the gearing the, the thing is wrapped out at 55 and they run them like that all over the country.
Ya the fuel sender well its all bad except install thats easy. Its one of the few they are not offering just the sensor for, which is what the problem is. The wiper fingers wear off and you get no signal. 250.00 doesnt sound bad for what the rapeist im working for sells them. Its a complete drop in unit and ive done a bunch of them. seems someone in engineering had a late night befor they chose the metal to use on the senders contact surface. dont drop the tank unless you have stuff bolted down in your bed that would be a big pain to remove. we pull beds and its quick.

my first 6.0 had 33's and got about 12 mpg
my second had 20" rims and 50's and gets about 14 (its a deanli and wife drives it now)
my third 6.0 stock wheels duno yet on mpg to soon to tell and i cant keep my foot out of it.
what year 6.6 do you have? i have a bunch of parts for them just no senders




gemini look at gmc dot com the NEW 2007 sierra 6.0 is 367 hp and the new 3/4 ton and up is a 6.2 (gas) dont know the numbers on that one yet. 99 to 06 ya 300 unless you had a denali then you got 335hp and escalape has 345 hp. difference was in the heads and programming. Im sorry you bout a chevy in this town i only buy gmc and never buy from whom i work for.

my happy place is diving into the the dirt with all 4 wheels spinnin

 

[workinallthetime]

I think we got way way off the hp issue, im just tired of seeing people who dont need a diesel driving one that 1% of the time they might need it justifies to them buying it. hp needed ,cost upfront, cost down the road, and reliabilty all factor into those decisions my 23 hp kubota is amazing but so was the jd 301. In the tractor world 10 hp can mean the difference in class of tractor, from lawn mower to sub compact to compact to full size then insane 9000 acre size. cars and trucks 10 hp means chevy vs ford vs toyota vs dodge. its insane. my wife wants to know why i wont buy a jd from home depot for a z turn i say look at that engine its gas, thats why, yet i wont run anything but a gasser as a everyday grocery getter and kubota hauler, lol. this guy wants to know about hp but you cant talk about it with out torque.

was that horse a shetland or a clydsdayle that they made these calculations with? hmmmmm