Working toward refund from TMY, hoping to move to LS...question on which HP and any concerns about your MT series

[51allis]

@Torvy I hope TYM improves and does great. More competition hopefully will mean better quality and prices for all. I knew that Kioti made at least some of their own (Daedong) engines. I also know that TYM and LS do not exclusively make all their own engines as some have other brand engines in them. Every Kubota diesel tractor has a Kubota made engine in it except the largest M8 tractor which uses a 6.7L Cummins. For me anyway, I know that many of the "light plant" construction site lights, along with many of the reefer units on insulated trailers use small Kubota diesel engines because they are very reliable and efficient. Now these same companies like Thermo-King, Carrier, Wacker-Neuson, Amida, etc, etc...could all choose a Daedong or Shibaura or LS or Yanmar, etc...but they pick Kubota because its the best combination of price, parts and service availability, reliability, and efficiency.

@51allis and @CloverKnollFarms, I guess I didn't realize there were stand-alone DPF equipped tractors still running mechanical injection. How does the DPF perform an active regen? Is there a separate fuel injector into the DPF with its own pump? Yes I agree, those could likely be bypassed. I'm surprised the EPA doesn't have a fool-proof on this like they do the others. Be very careful with a bypass and make sure the fuel shutdown solenoid is working properly and that you have means to prevent a runaway diesel scenario.

Yes, my LS does have a separate fuel injection burner that is supposed to burn off the soot accumulated in the DPF with its own injector and glow plug of sorts to start it. Its a messed up system for sure but its not worth spending $4500 to repair just to meet EPA standards which have impacted most tractors reliability issues, even JD with their proprietary systems where you have to bring it to the dealer or have the dealer come out no matter what. Anytime the words "dealer service" are involved it just means open your wallet and watch the $$$ fly out hahaha.

 

[troverman]

Yeah, if there is a way to bypass without side effects, I'd do the same. I know for certain the Kubota DPF (and I believe the Deere) are fully integrated just like a modern diesel truck. There is no possible way to bypass, and the engine uses direct fuel injection with a high pressure fuel pump (another failure-prone item if there is fuel contamination) and electronically-controlled injectors at very high (excess of 25,000) psi. On the Kubota and Deere, the DPF does not use its own injector and igniter but rather uses the expensive fuel injectors - which can have multiple injection events per cycle - to inject extra fuel just before the exhaust cycle, which carries the fuel through the turbo and into the DPF for the burn cycle. Same as a modern Cummins, for example.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

@Torvy I hope TYM improves and does great. More competition hopefully will mean better quality and prices for all. I knew that Kioti made at least some of their own (Daedong) engines. I also know that TYM and LS do not exclusively make all their own engines as some have other brand engines in them. Every Kubota diesel tractor has a Kubota made engine in it except the largest M8 tractor which uses a 6.7L Cummins. For me anyway, I know that many of the "light plant" construction site lights, along with many of the reefer units on insulated trailers use small Kubota diesel engines because they are very reliable and efficient. Now these same companies like Thermo-King, Carrier, Wacker-Neuson, Amida, etc, etc...could all choose a Daedong or Shibaura or LS or Yanmar, etc...but they pick Kubota because its the best combination of price, parts and service availability, reliability, and efficiency.

@51allis and @CloverKnollFarms, I guess I didn't realize there were stand-alone DPF equipped tractors still running mechanical injection. How does the DPF perform an active regen? Is there a separate fuel injector into the DPF with its own pump? Yes I agree, those could likely be bypassed. I'm surprised the EPA doesn't have a fool-proof on this like they do the others. Be very careful with a bypass and make sure the fuel shutdown solenoid is working properly and that you have means to prevent a runaway diesel scenario.

It actually uses a solenoid controlled butterfly in the exhaust to raise the temp of the DPF to burn off the soot. It has no injectors in the system. Oddly, most of these engines run 200+ hours before the FIRST regen ever occurs. So the question is then, why does another brand run 20-50 hours between regens, and the Kukje 200+?

 

[troverman]

It actually uses a solenoid controlled butterfly in the exhaust to raise the temp of the DPF to burn off the soot. It has no injectors in the system. Oddly, most of these engines run 200+ hours before the FIRST regen ever occurs. So the question is then, why does another brand run 20-50 hours between regens, and the Kukje 200+?

Interesting. Sounds like Mahindra's system of just keeping the DPF hot enough when needed to burn off soot. Obviously, restricting the exhaust system is going to cause power and efficiency loss, and potential long term damage to the engine, I would think.

 

[Rocket Surgeon]

If you have been following my other thread about the hell we have been in for 7+ months with our T494 you will know why we are now seeking a full refund. Sufficient to say that after sale support from the manufacture and parts are non-existent.

Assuming we are successful our next choice is the MT3 line. the 494 had a 49hp engine, the MT3 offers 4 different HP levels although the lifting capacity for all is the same according to specs.

What has your real world experience been with the HP in your MT3 series and are there any concerns you have had we should be aware of?

I know 1 big difference is the much lower lift height of 96 inches vs the 110 on the T494, but at this point having a tractor with a low lift is better than having a tractor in the shop that you can't ever use.

Our uses for the tractor in order of importance will be:

1. moving brush
2. moving snow with a self contained berco 72 inch snow blower (has its own 33hp vanguard motor)
3. cutting about 1/2 a mile of ditch with sickle mower
4. moving a few round bales from time to time

Thanks.

I've got an MT4-68 by LS and have been very happy with it. They tend to be a few hundred pounds lighter than their competition so you may want to look at the 4-series.

The only problem I've had is that the hood latch wouldn't release and I couldn't clean out the radiator screens. Both the mechanic and the factory were baffled that it happened - with the factory saying they'd never heard of anyone with that problem. (Lucky me!) It took some finagling to open the hood because there's no way to pop the hood latch from the outside, but other than that one issue, I've got zero complaints.

 

[jyoutz]

It actually uses a solenoid controlled butterfly in the exhaust to raise the temp of the DPF to burn off the soot. It has no injectors in the system. Oddly, most of these engines run 200+ hours before the FIRST regen ever occurs. So the question is then, why does another brand run 20-50 hours between regens, and the Kukje 200+?

My tractor regens at about 75 hours. But I have difficulty understanding why this is a concern? I just keep working and the regen is over in 10-15 minutes. If it wasn’t for the flashing light and different exhaust odor, I wouldn’t even know it’s happening.

 

[Eagle1]

Regen itself is not a real problem, just annoying when it hit just as you are done and near the barn.
The problem is when it does not operate like it should and puts the tractor in limp mode. Just like DPF is not a problem on cars or trucks until it is the only reason you are stranded or have to replace the system after the warranty runs out.

 

[tacticalturnip]

My tractor regens at about 75 hours. But I have difficulty understanding why this is a concern? I just keep working and the regen is over in 10-15 minutes. If it wasn’t for the flashing light and different exhaust odor, I wouldn’t even know it’s happening.

You know how to operate the machine properly so that it goes the most time between regens, and your tractor has in turn been reliable. Some folks don't understand the new systems, some may confuse one system for another, and other machines still are just lemons. All this comes together to make a lot of folks wary, and even a few years down the line I still understand that unease. When emissions items are a concern they're almost always an expensive concern, and often tie into everyone's other favorite gremlin, the ECM.

So for most it will never be an issue, but the shadow of these repair costs and potential headaches looms over every one of these machines. Don't get too discouraged though, these Tier IV tractors are gold compared to what I am sure awaits us in the brave new world.

 

[JhnMhn]

Have LS XR 4140 40 hp gear cab with 600 hrs & no problems. It has been used for log/grapple work, snow blowing with 6 ft 3pt/pto blower, landscaping with bucket, rake, & box blade, maintaining 1 mi long gravel drive,etc, etc. Regens have been anticlimactic, with no DPF/ECU problems…knock on wood. Have owned JD & used Kubotas & prefer this LS. Got a lot more machine for the $. My JD dealer was terrible compared to my LS dealer. Just another data point for the OP.

 

[flyinghigh]

Sounds like LS is very hit and miss...with the ECM control being a very real roll of the dice both short and long term. We will keep fighting with TYM to get a tractor back on the farm rather than sitting in the shop.

Thanks all.