To rebuild or not to rebuild this old engine?

[Willl]

This have a hydro tranny ?

Isn't it about a 62'-63' ?

 

[john_bud]

A balancer ?, that must be that gizmo I was trying to identify in the last pic. Front center.

I've been into chevy and ford blocks quite often and never seen anything like that.

Do they counter-rotate ?

Yeah, he has a 172 cid diesel from 1960 on with the counter rotating balancer. In the first set of pictures with the stuff on the bench, the balancer is on the right of the main bearing caps.


Pete, I'm assuming you have the ford book on the engine. There are a couple tricks with the balancer replacement to get it aligned. Also, very closely inspect the oil pick up lines for cracks or wear. You don't want to suck air. It don't lube too good.

You can also pull the oil pump spring and put a washer there to raise the pressure.

I would also get a cheap electronic scale that reads in grams. Degrease all the piston/rod assemblies and weigh them. I had one that was 91 grams light and it made the tractor shake a tad (yikes!).

jb

 

[TYMinColton]

Yeah, he has a 172 cid diesel from 1960 on with the counter rotating balancer. In the first set of pictures with the stuff on the bench, the balancer is on the right of the main bearing caps.

I'll try and take another couple of pictures of the balancer in action. The shot from underneath with everything still in place shows the balancer front and center. The protective cover has been removed. Apparently these were added to the later ford X01 models (both the 134 and 172 cu in) and were also available as an in-service upgrade. Based on the fasteners, mine was original equipment (further confirming the 1962 vintage of my 881D)

Pete, I'm assuming you have the ford book on the engine. There are a couple tricks with the balancer replacement to get it aligned.

John, I did notice the alignment and even took pictures of the tool marks on the crankshaft gear and front-side balancer gear to remind me . A ford shop manual is on the way as I won one last night on ebay (yeah!). I've been using I&T with some success, but find myself in want of part definitions and a quality diagram . I'm actually more worried about getting the alignment correct for the injector assembly .

Also, very closely inspect the oil pick up lines for cracks or wear. You don't want to suck air. It don't lube too good.

Looks like there is only one of these (covered with a fine mesh screen), but I could be wrong. I still need to clean this up as it had some oil/water mix inside.

You can also pull the oil pump spring and put a washer there to raise the pressure.

We are talking about the oil pump that sits down in the bottom of the oil pan, correct? My comment above referred to this particular assembly. I haven't done much more than remove it as a single unit at this point and certainly haven't pulled it apart to look inside.

I would also get a cheap electronic scale that reads in grams. Degrease all the piston/rod assemblies and weigh them. I had one that was 91 grams light and it made the tractor shake a tad (yikes!).

Excellent advice. Funny you should mention this. I noticed early on that the front end of the crankshaft has a number of 3/8" drill holes on it. I'm guessing that these were used to remove material front the front assembly to balance weight front-to-back. I wonder if this was done as standard practice for first-time engine assembly.
Thanks!

 

[TYMinColton]

This have a hydro tranny ?

Isn't it about a 62'-63' ?

John already beat me to the punch on the balancer. Yes, the Select-O-Speed (SOS) transmission was an early hydro transmission that used a combination of hydraulics, tension bands, valves, and clutch packs to deliver 10 forward and 2 reverse speeds (+ PTO). I think these trannys came out in around '59 actually, but were greatly improved in late 60's and continued to be used with the ford 2000-6000 series. More knowledgeable TBN's can give you a more complete run-down of history and mechanics for the SOS .

In my case, the SOS actually was working reasonably well (when the engine seized), but the PTO no longer engaged properly. Unfortunately, unless I have a broken PTO shaft or cable, the repair will probably require me to dive into the transmission. Looks like the PTO and inching pedal (feathering valve) run off of the band 2 (Wow- that clears it up doesn't it? )

Engine first - I say!
Pete

 

[638]

Pete,

Take the pistons to the machine shop with you. Have them knurled to fit the rehoned cylinder bores if necessary.

 

[TYMinColton]

Pete,

Take the pistons to the machine shop with you. Have them knurled to fit the rehoned cylinder bores if necessary.

638,
Knurled? Technical term? Ahhh. . . I see . . . everyone should have a knurlizer handy! I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the heads-up. Any idea how this works? And yes, I am being serious. I'm a total nubie on these kinds of things, but the web don't lie. Clearly knurling is a technique for increasing diameter of the pistons ridges. Makes sense to me - thanks!
Pete

 

[638]

Not really technical. The piston is set up in a lathe and a tool with small wheels are pressed into the soft aluminun. The small wheels have raised ridges on them and the process raises the metal up and increases the diameter of the piston.

 

[barneyrb]

Also have the crank mic'd to check oil clearance. Too much = low oil pressure, too little = stacked bearing. BTW....are we having fun yet?

 

[TYMinColton]

Also have the crank mic'd to check oil clearance. Too much = low oil pressure, too little = stacked bearing. BTW....are we having fun yet?

Every time I think I've got a handle on what to do, and how to do it. . . someone ups the ante . I'm definitely having fun or I would have given up long ago.

As for your suggestion. What are we talking about exactly? I've looked the crank pretty carefully and it's totally clean - as if it were never used. Considering this engine may have had less than 100 hrs on it before getting ruined , I'm not sure there's much to be done with the crank. But by all means, please advise . . . . all the info I can get either informs my decisions or makes me a mad man!
Pete

 

[john_bud]

If $$ are tight, you will be 99.999% good if you just order bearings that are the same as what was in there. (I didn't look close at the bearings, you might be able to reuse). The crank looked great. The ford diesel cranks were tough, but the rod bolts were known to be pizz poor. I had ARP's fitted. At the very least I would have new factory bolts put in. They stretch and get weak while looking good, then blow a hole in the side of the block when you are not expecting it.

Yeah, pull the oil pump apart. Measure the distance between the gear points and the housing at the closest. That is the clearance that determines how much oil the pump will pump. Also the distance from the gears face to the metal cover. And look for scratches, etc. Based on your crank, it should be good. I would also pull the relief spring and add a 1/8th inch washer to up the oil pressure 5-15 psi. I am of the more is better when it comes to oil pressure club!

Putting the injection pump back is cake. Except, that the #1 may not be on the comression stroke when you have the cam/crank gears lined up! Make sure you have the number 1 (closest to the radiator) on the compression stroke, static time the with the flywheel marks to 23 degrees BTDC and align the marks in the pump timing window EXACTLY! If you can't get the marks to show up, the pump gear drive in the block is backwards. I forget if it's offset away from the block or towards the block, this is coming off the cuff. But it only goes one way. The "trick" to getting it to seat on the oil pump drive shaft is to press it down with one hand and turn the crank by hand at the same time. The hex shaft will dance around in there and eventually go in. (You can actually set it in there with the oil pan off, but knowing how to do it with the pan on is nice!).