So would you buy a new GM truck now?

[mkane09]

The problem for the big 3 as I see it, is not that they're making bad products. It's the PERCEPTION that they make bad products that is hurting them. Their history (Chrysler since Lee Iaccoca left, for example) of perceived poor products has inertia, which will not turn around on a dime. There is plenty of blame to pass around: ridiculous union benefits/wages, poorly designed/engineered products, poorly built products, poorly priced products, mis-timed market choices (the gas sucking Hemi engines with $4/gallon gas, the 10 mpg Ford 6.4 diesel), the greed of the CEOs and stockholders, etc., etc. The REAL problem for the big 3 is right here in all of the previous threads: the fear that I'm gonna buy a $20-50k vehicle from a company that may not be around in a year or two. The PERCEPTION that the buyer is gonna crash right along with the company. It's the same problem that the stock market has. People are reacting emotionally, not rationally. This problem, like I stated above, has inertia that will require TIME to fix. And time is something the big 3 may not have. Interestingly, Ford reported sales off 31% for the latest period reported; Honda and Toyota off 33-34%, Chrysler somewhere around 47%. I could spin this in the media and say something like....Ford is doing better than Honda/Toyota. Let's all buy Fords!

YMMV....

mkane09

 

[Builder]

GM offers more fuel efficient choices than Toyota or Honda, but people don't think GM & domestic small cars are as high in quality as Toyota or Honda. Let's face it, the big 3's strength are BIG vehicles, which I happily drive, even when fuel costs a lot. The Japanese & Koreans specialize in smaller cars which are about the only ones of the few vehicles that are being sold in the last 6-12 months.

Combine that with high fuel prices, a deep recession, gov't CAFE & EPA standards and an unfriendly corp tax structure, horrible legacy costs & higher union wages and it's no wonder all 3 of the big 3 are in deep trouble.

 

[JoelD]

I think, without going through their numbers in detail, the problem for the big three is fairly simple. Costs are too high and have been, they rely on huge volume and when there is a bump in the road with regards to volume, all their dirty laundry is hung out to dry.

I don't see how they can ever succeed with labor costs where they are in comparison to their competition. The labor contracts, over years and years have slowly killed them.

They, like as most (if not all other than the govt.) others already have, need to get out of the defined benefit pension model. The math will just kill you every time.

Managing a union shop is incredibly expensive and time consuming. And the UAW in particular appears to be un-manageable.

Fairly simple options in my mind, either toss contract (bankruptcy), renegotiate contract, or shutter.

Sad its come to this as was totally avoidable my mind.

Joel

 

[chumly2071]

I think now is the time to be buying American. I would encourage anyone who is considering a new vehicle purchase to look at one of the big 3.

Statements like this annoy the **** out of me... I can buy a Honda made in Ohio, a Toyota made in Indiana, a Benz made in Alabama, a Mitsubishi made in Normal, IL, or on and on. Or, I could do as I did, and buy a Dodge Ram diesel that was made in Mexico. If my tax dollars are going to be used to bail out yet another private enterprise, then there better be some stipulations regarding where and how that money is to be spent. It better be used to implement and build infrastructure, product, and jobs in this country, and not emerging/expanding markets in other parts of the world such as India or Asia. And don't tell me about the money staying here, as obviously all the expansion the big three have been doing as of late has been in these foreign markets, not here. And yes, I do own all "American" cars and trucks.

 

[Nissan197]

I agree with the above post. I also owned all American up until 2004 when I bought my Nissas Titan, hence the name. Have not had one problem with it. Before that had a GMC truck, which did pretty good. I also had a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix. I just traded that in the spring for a Nissan Altima. The Pontiac was costing me and it did not even have 70,000 miles on it when I traded it. New transmission at 50,000 miles, new ball joints, tie rod ends, sensors,........ To answer the original question......Yes, I would buy a new GM truck now. I don't think any of the big 3 will be gone. I think all of them will be getting rid of several models or other brands that they own.

 

[Builder]

Statements like this annoy the **** out of me... I can buy a Honda made in Ohio, a Toyota made in Indiana, a Benz made in Alabama, a Mitsubishi made in Normal, IL, or on and on. Or, I could do as I did, and buy a Dodge Ram diesel that was made in Mexico. If my tax dollars are going to be used to bail out yet another private enterprise, then there better be some stipulations regarding where and how that money is to be spent. It better be used to implement and build infrastructure, product, and jobs in this country, and not emerging/expanding markets in other parts of the world such as India or Asia. And don't tell me about the money staying here, as obviously all the expansion the big three have been doing as of late has been in these foreign markets, not here. And yes, I do own all "American" cars and trucks.

It's not a "bailout". The 700 billion for Wall Street.....now that IS a "bailout". If you watched the committee that questioned the big 3 execs, you would have seen that a LOT of oversight will go into the funds that will be loaned. The "bailout" money given to Wall Street has little, if any, oversight.

Remember, it's a LOAN. It is to be paid back. The 700 billion to Wall Street is gone forever, given away to the likes of Bob Reuben from Citibank.

The 34 Billion requested by the big 3 has a payback date.

BIG difference, my friend.

 

[Builder]

I agree with the above post. I also owned all American up until 2004 when I bought my Nissas Titan, hence the name. Have not had one problem with it. Before that had a GMC truck, which did pretty good. I also had a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix. I just traded that in the spring for a Nissan Altima. The Pontiac was costing me and it did not even have 70,000 miles on it when I traded it. New transmission at 50,000 miles, new ball joints, tie rod ends, sensors,........ To answer the original question......Yes, I would buy a new GM truck now. I don't think any of the big 3 will be gone. I think all of them will be getting rid of several models or other brands that they own.

Toyota & Nissan & Honda are hurting, too! Nissan's sales are down more than GM's!

Let me tell you, Nissan was saved from bankruptcy in '99 by Renault. They have been in DEEP doo-doo just like the big 3. Toyota, Honda, Nissan are also given great amounts of protectionism in their homeland of Japan. Chinese and and many European car makes are HEAVILY subsidized by their governments or taxpayers. Read about it, it's an eye opener.

The Big 3 are not the inefficient pigs the media makes them out to be.

 

[WilliamBos]

Toyota & Nissan & Honda are hurting, too! Nissan's sales are down more than GM's!

Let me tell you, Nissan was saved from bankruptcy in '99 by Renault. They have been in DEEP doo-doo just like the big 3. Toyota, Honda, Nissan are also given great amounts of protectionism in their homeland of Japan. Chinese and and many European car makes are HEAVILY subsidized by their governments or taxpayers. Read about it, it's an eye opener.

The Big 3 are not the inefficient pigs the media makes them out to be.

Exactly!! And what anoys me about the media is they always compare some 4 cyl ricer nutbucket to one of the Big 3's pick up trucks, always going on about how efficient they are. Heaven forbid the media does a fair comparison. The crap that came out of Detroit in the past is not coming out any more. They have top quality products, but because it is NOT Japanese, they seem to get snubbed.

 

[redneckford]

Toyota & Nissan & Honda are hurting, too! Nissan's sales are down more than GM's!

Let me tell you, Nissan was saved from bankruptcy in '99 by Renault. They have been in DEEP doo-doo just like the big 3. Toyota, Honda, Nissan are also given great amounts of protectionism in their homeland of Japan. Chinese and and many European car makes are HEAVILY subsidized by their governments or taxpayers. Read about it, it's an eye opener.

The Big 3 are not the inefficient pigs the media makes them out to be.

Dang Builder some people can not stand the truth----i guess we just need to buy some more sony TV's-----Free trade my ---I heard today that another brand of car builder was going to open a plant in Ohio and pay $18 per hour. I wonder how may of those TV talking "professional" Heads work for that and how many new cars those employee's will buy from their car company's over their life time----oh I mean employment time ---when they get older do you really think those other car companies will keep them on the payroll---Truth and Fairness has a cost!!!

 

[chumly2071]

It's not a "bailout". The 700 billion for Wall Street.....now that IS a "bailout". If you watched the committee that questioned the big 3 execs, you would have seen that a LOT of oversight will go into the funds that will be loaned. The "bailout" money given to Wall Street has little, if any, oversight.

Remember, it's a LOAN. It is to be paid back. The 700 billion to Wall Street is gone forever, given away to the likes of Bob Reuben from Citibank.

The 34 Billion requested by the big 3 has a payback date.

BIG difference, my friend.

OK, so it is a LOAN, using our tax dollars. Who is going to make sure that this loan gets paid back on time (or at all with the way big business and politicians work), and is used to support growth within THIS country?