GM Truck Warranty

[toy]

Well, just because it is on CNN does not mean it is true.

Just because it is on CNN does not mean that it is not true either. I think that the unions have a very important place in our country, I see the direction that our economy is taking and I feel all the more that we need unions. How come some want to attack the unions and not say a word about the mismanagement on wall street and the excesses there? I would come nearer thinking that our problems stem from their failures than any thing that the union has did. The unions as with any other work place and I repeat as any other work place have some problems, but the unions don't come out and cut the interest rates and cause those that have saved and have their savings in cd's to loose money just to prop up wall street. The unions haven't approved 0 money down home loans. The unions never approved any interest only home loans. The unions never approved any home loans to people that had no job and no viable way to repay the loan. The unions never got us in this mess. You cannot show me a country where we have signed a free trade deal where we have a trade surplus with them. We have a pretty good trade relation with Canada but their standard of living is comparable to ours. All countries that have a growing manufacturing base but a low standard of living for their average citizens are cleaning our clocks, and our decline won't stop until our standard of living drops to these countries or theirs rise to ours. They will continue to abuse our market place until we decide to do something about it and that places the blame to where I can't go into in this discussion. We are loosing our way of life we are being sold a lie and when we realize that it is a lie they will disguise it dress it up in a different covering make it sound right and sell it to us again over and over again while we continue to slide backwards. If you can't see what I am telling you is the truth then you are not paying attention. I have been seeing some things that are really alarming to me and I want to make sure that we preserve this collection of small voices because with the downward pressure that the working people are under now we don't want to have to start from scratch again. The unions is the voice of the working people like it or not the thing is do you want a strong voice that can actually effect change or do you want a weak voice where those that would oppress you can run rampant over you?

 

[Builder]

The Wall Steet debacle is because of poor gov't (SEC, FNMA, etc) oversight.

The Big 3 problems are mostly because of poor gov't policies imposed on the automakers (CAFE, gov't fuel taxes, etc).

Most of our social & financial problems here & abroad are because of poor gov't decisions and gov't corruption (fill in the blanls, there's many of them) .

Anyone see a pattern emerging here?

 

[WilliamBos]

Just because it is on CNN does not mean that it is not true either. I think that the unions have a very important place in our country, I see the direction that our economy is taking and I feel all the more that we need unions. How come some want to attack the unions and not say a word about the mismanagement on wall street and the excesses there? I would come nearer thinking that our problems stem from their failures than any thing that the union has did. The unions as with any other work place and I repeat as any other work place have some problems, but the unions don't come out and cut the interest rates and cause those that have saved and have their savings in cd's to loose money just to prop up wall street. The unions haven't approved 0 money down home loans. The unions never approved any interest only home loans. The unions never approved any home loans to people that had no job and no viable way to repay the loan. The unions never got us in this mess. You cannot show me a country where we have signed a free trade deal where we have a trade surplus with them. We have a pretty good trade relation with Canada but their standard of living is comparable to ours. All countries that have a growing manufacturing base but a low standard of living for their average citizens are cleaning our clocks, and our decline won't stop until our standard of living drops to these countries or theirs rise to ours. They will continue to abuse our market place until we decide to do something about it and that places the blame to where I can't go into in this discussion. We are loosing our way of life we are being sold a lie and when we realize that it is a lie they will disguise it dress it up in a different covering make it sound right and sell it to us again over and over again while we continue to slide backwards. If you can't see what I am telling you is the truth then you are not paying attention. I have been seeing some things that are really alarming to me and I want to make sure that we preserve this collection of small voices because with the downward pressure that the working people are under now we don't want to have to start from scratch again. The unions is the voice of the working people like it or not the thing is do you want a strong voice that can actually effect change or do you want a weak voice where those that would oppress you can run rampant over you?

I agree. We both have some trade issues with some other countries that need to be overhauled. They can flood our markets, but we are very limited to what we can send over to them.

If you look back at the last few weeks, you will notice that the first bailout was killed because the Unions refused concessions until the collective agreement expires. That needs to change, or they Union will have no choice in the matter. Bankruptcy courts will take care of it. Management need to make concessions too, some major ones.

My point on the union is that they do not control the companies, but think they do, and many many times do not speak on behalf of the members, only on what the union wants, and that in many cases is a direct opposite of the members. They made their beds with the sweetheart deals of the 50's and 60's, but that has to change.

Honda has already done it. Managers took a 10% pay cut to save jobs - NO LAYOFFS, and guess what NO UNION!!

What good do the serve again??

 

[gemini5362]

I agree. We both have some trade issues with some other countries that need to be overhauled. They can flood our markets, but we are very limited to what we can send over to them.

If you look back at the last few weeks, you will notice that the first bailout was killed because the Unions refused concessions until the collective agreement expires. That needs to change, or they Union will have no choice in the matter. Bankruptcy courts will take care of it. Management need to make concessions too, some major ones.

My point on the union is that they do not control the companies, but think they do, and many many times do not speak on behalf of the members, only on what the union wants, and that in many cases is a direct opposite of the members. They made their beds with the sweetheart deals of the 50's and 60's, but that has to change.

Honda has already done it. Managers took a 10% pay cut to save jobs - NO LAYOFFS, and guess what NO UNION!!



What good do the serve again??

Will, You work in a union shop but I am assuming that you are not a member. If you are a member please tell me that my assumption is wrong. I am curious about your working conditions. Did the non union members in your shop get together and negotiate wages and benefits or do you have the same wages and benefits as the union members of your shop. If you have the same wages and benefits who negotiated them. Was it the union. ?

 

[WilliamBos]

Will, You work in a union shop but I am assuming that you are not a member. If you are a member please tell me that my assumption is wrong. I am curious about your working conditions. Did the non union members in your shop get together and negotiate wages and benefits or do you have the same wages and benefits as the union members of your shop. If you have the same wages and benefits who negotiated them. Was it the union. ?

We are unionized, and so am I, and with the crap job our union did on the CBA , we could have done a better job without them. Not too much faith left in the Union from our point.

This is my first - and last Union Job. I love the job, and all who I work with, but the Union is another story. Management is great with us, which is why Myself and others have no use for the Union.

 

[Dargo]

My point on the union is that they do not control the companies, but think they do, and many many times do not speak on behalf of the members, only on what the union wants, and that in many cases is a direct opposite of the members. They made their beds with the sweetheart deals of the 50's and 60's, but that has to change.

For some reason it seems that power corrupts in many cases. You can take that in respect to politicians as well as to labor union leaders. Then the concept of organized labor was conceived it was desperately needed. We did not have any government organizations at that time to watch out for dangers and abuses in the workplace. Organized labor helped quite a bit. I watched both of my great grandfathers die from 'black lung'. If they didn't want to go down into the mines and work in the bad conditions the companies would just hire the next desperate worker who would. Those workers needed help to combat operators who either didn't care or didn't know of the dangers that existed. As I mentioned, the government has now replaced most all facets of organized labor that actually protects the worker from harm. This is why that in the last 50 years membership in organized labor has consistently declined and labor unions now basically exist to extort unreasonable pay and benefits from companies often at the expense of the viability of the company.

The UAW most certainly falls into that latter category. The UAW is by far and away the largest reason the domestic automakers are failing. Sure there are dozens, if not hundreds, of contributing factors, but the UAW is the single biggest problem. And, believe it or not, there are happily retired workers from non-union auto companies right here in the United States. Toyota and Honda are not surviving only because they do not have retired workers. That statement would be laughable if it were not for the UAW having media outlets believe them when they say that and then repeat it to the public.

As WilliamBos referred, the UAW has long been creating their ultimate demise. It is just now finally coming home to roost. There are internal documents at all of the domestic automakers dating to several decades ago stating that the UAW will eventually force a final showdown where the companies will fail or their vehicles will be priced so high that nobody will buy them when compared to vehicles produced from non-union shops. This disaster has been long coming but also has been coming with a bright headlight announcing it's imminent arrival. In the case of the coal miner's union, the union simply lost and became irrelevant and the companies made whatever changes they needed to rid themselves of the union and reopen as non-union, and profitable, operations. Only arrogance can keep the management of the UAW from seeing that they can work with the automakers to pull through or they too will become an irrelevant side act as the industry as a whole eventually pulls through. Not every automaker may make it, but the auto industry itself will survive. And, to the original question, even if the UAW forces GM to file for chapter 11, GM knows that voiding existing warranties will insure their demise.

 

[gemini5362]

We are unionized, and so am I, and with the crap job our union did on the CBA , we could have done a better job without them. Not too much faith left in the Union from our point.

This is my first - and last Union Job. I love the job, and all who I work with, but the Union is another story. Management is great with us, which is why Myself and others have no use for the Union.

If you belong then I will agree you have every right to say whatever you want to about your contract. I also have some disagreement with my current contract. I voted against it but one of the things about a democracy is that if more people voted for the contract than voted against it then it was ratified. I am not happy with some of the things that our current president does. I am not talking about any type of corruption just differences of opinion. I voiced my opinion in a couple of ways. One of them was to vote against him in the last election. One of the things I have thought about upper union leadership. Any big union in effect becomes a corporation. The secretary treasurer becomes a CFO the President becomes a CEO and the executive board becomes a board of directors. In the case of upper union leadership they have had full time union positions for years prior to becoming the president for instance. This means they have not been on a workroom floor working in a long time. In the case of our president probably over 25 or 30 years. I have thought that since the President is now a CEO he is identifing more with management than with the workers. Not having been on the floor in a long time he has forgotten what problems you face and how important some of the small items become. I dont think that is any kind of corruption just human nature. Our union employees several thousand full time workers. I can imagine the head of our company for management and the president of the union just chatting about problems with employee salaries for instance. We once had a big problem with getting paid for travel. The company was refusing to pay us full pay for time spent travelling. We had grievance after grievance filed over that issue. We finally filed a suit in federal court. While we were fighting this argument the maintenance craft had a conference in california. The secretarys for the maintenance craft director had to fly there to work at the conference and the maintenance craft director refused to pay them for travel. They had to sue the union to get paid. This is the kind of thing I feel is a direct relationship to a union officer identifying too close with management. By the way that craft director was voted out the next election

 

[toy]

Talk about how nice the employer treats you, that is because he wants something. Are you going to be a sucker or are you going to rationalize what is happening? One of managements
biggest tools that they use against you is to try to divide you, and pit you against each other. They have did that since the very beginning. Once all resistance is gone then all the extras that you have received from them leaves also, little by little it will go. It's called a dog eat dog world and you will see how big a dog you are when they start eating at you when you have no more organized labor to represent you. It took a lot to get union representation started, there was a lot of struggle, a lot of sacrifice, and a lot of injuries and even death to get this awful voice that every one is so dead set against started. When times are hard the working people have a lot of pressure to give back and Gettlefinger and even the three auto executives agreed that the union had already gave back not once but twice and they were willing to look for other areas where they could cut back and it seemed that some when they talked about more cuts the only name they could come up with was the union and it became abundantly clear that no matter what the union agreed to that wouldn't satisfy there was only one goal there at the hearing. When they did come to an agreement and all parties at the meeting agreed to a solution then the little youngin from Tennessee went to his daddy and his daddies said no that is what stopped the negotiations, not the union, just a little different perception of what actually happened and if you listened to it you know that it is the truth. And as far as the auto makers coming to the meeting in the jet planes getting as much press as it did that was stupid to suggest that they travel commercial flight if they have to be somewhere in 3 hours and it is important for them to be there an 8 hour weight at the airport terminal just don't cut it, their planes could have been cheaper planes that is for sure but I don't believe that they went out and bought them just when things went south in the economy. Yes they can cut costs and they should but there has been a different standard for the American manufacturing and the wall street crowd for too long. If we are receiving 1000 units of a product into the USA for every 10 that that country is receiving from us then it is time that the great deciders to get their head out of where ever they have got it stuck and realize that the free trade isn't working in the best interest for the USA as a whole, and find out why it is not working and see if we are willing to accept these losses or not. If we are willing to accept these losses then you better button down the hatch you hain't seen nothing yet and it might do some good to see some of it, but the only bad thing about it when it happens we'll all have to see it together. By the way if every thing that is going on to try to solve this problem is called socialism then tell me what is it called when communist china sets up it's government owned plants in the USA what is that called? That part of it hasn't been discussed yet maybe we become a territory of Communist China maybe some of the other countries that own manufacturing plants have the same type of government owned businesses. I am sure that this isn't in the best interest for our national security either. And if they by some slim chance they do look I hope they don't look at it with tunnel vision the people in California are only allowed to take a breath once every ten minutes because they might pollute, their state is in bankruptcy as well as many other states across the country and cities and the reason is tax revenue is down and their solution is cut, cut, cut, cut, that is going on all across this country. When you are in that condition you know what your country is called? Don't be misled it's not a rising economy, the sun is not rising on America it is setting, but it don't have to be, it don't have to be, unless we let it.

 

[redneckford]

Cheap Fuel and Cheap Food----That is what is the major difference????? If they grow food cheaper with less than ideal fertilizer or chemicals---do you want to eat it because it is cheaper-----that is the main question----how are they doing it cheaper----You will never make me believe they are working harder!!!!! FAIR TRADE NOT FREE TRADE----That is the only answer-----I believe in Unions but they do not support others that buy their product-----Many small farmers and ranchers work just as hard as the union shops but do you think the union man will buy their product if they can buy food cheaper at the non-union supermarket---it all starts at home----your home----just look around your house and see how you can change your buying habits-----We must raise all boats in order to make this idea work!!!!! No protectionist just educated buying decisions----Give'm the choice!!!!! Some will live some will die---educated decisions matter in the "LONG" run!!! Have you bought a union made TV or TRACTOR in the US Lately????? Just the union buyers alone would make a big market for those products----will they ----did they????

 

[Diamondpilot]

Give it up. The unions are dead. Look at all the industries they have run into the ground like the textiles, airline, steel, mining, and now the auto here in the US. Its not the union worker, its the union management. I have always said someone is getting rich off of the unions. Its just like the mob of the 30's, its like you give me a few dollars every week and I will make sure nothing bad will happen. Kind of a insurance policy. The unions themselves have put up a glass wall between the worker and company management. When the shop my dad works at, still does and has for 35+ years, got rid of the union in the 90's things got better. Now everyone works side by side to get the job done, be profitable, make the best product, and be competitive. Sound familiar? Well it should, its how the Honda and Toyota plants are run. These are the same workers that could not make a suggestion to the management before the contract was broken. Why do you think that was? Its one of the you tell me and I will tell them and that will make me look good and like I am doing something. Nothing you ever say or do will make me change my mind and I am sure you pro union folks feel the same way but your day is coming.

I agree things are not fair with trade but that falls back to the government, not the pro/anti union folks.

Chris