In floor heating vs. radiant vs. forced air in shop??

[polo1665]

unfortunately the previous owner of the property is the signer of the original lease with the oil company. When he split his property up and sold it he kept the rights to the oil royalties. I didn't balk at this as I thought and still think that the free gas is good enough for me. I believe he gets 1/8th of the oil proceeds. The wells are very productive and I was told by the well tender that his proceeds were upwards of $1,000 per week.
The gas I get is merely the tip of the ice berg. All three wells contribute to a main line and the rest of the gas is sold directly to the local gas company. It seems to burn normally and has caused no problems with any appliances. I believe the moisture content is probably higher from my own observances.

I like your decision to go with the in-floor radiant heat. If I ever build again it's what I will go with.

Mark

 

[wedge40]

unfortunately the previous owner of the property is the signer of the original lease with the oil company. When he split his property up and sold it he kept the rights to the oil royalties. I didn't balk at this as I thought and still think that the free gas is good enough for me. I believe he gets 1/8th of the oil proceeds. The wells are very productive and I was told by the well tender that his proceeds were upwards of $1,000 per week.
The gas I get is merely the tip of the ice berg. All three wells contribute to a main line and the rest of the gas is sold directly to the local gas company. It seems to burn normally and has caused no problems with any appliances. I believe the moisture content is probably higher from my own observances.

I like your decision to go with the in-floor radiant heat. If I ever build again it's what I will go with.

Mark

This why when you purchase property you need to check the mineral rights.
Also just because they drill doesn't mean they will hit oil. I'm guessing the accuracy has improved over the years though. In Michigan I knew a few farmers who had oil wells are there property. I'm guessing this is why one had a heated indoor swimming pool.

I have checked some of the numbers and it seemed like radiant heat supplies would add about $1500-$2000. This is excluding heat source. I know I will install it when I get my barn/workshop done because I've been in a few shops with this and it's pretty nice. I also like the fact that it's flameless so if you're working with paint in the winter you dont have to worry as much. Like everyone else I'll plan on keeping the floor at between 40 and 50, unless I know I'm going to be working in there over the weekend I'll turn it up some.

Wedge

 

[BungeeII]

If you go with in-floor heating, does that mean that you MUST have it running always in cold weather to prevent heaving of the slab? Can you skip a year or two without there being damage?

 

[studor]

My father used to design and install in slab heating systems in chicken barns. A lot of the insulation used to be cut-out panels from a metal door factory (the piece that gets cut out for windows). The boilers were small high efficiency gas or oil units and the lines were filled with glycol so that when the barn was shut down in between broods the lines would not have to be emptied or freeze. The boiler could just as easily be a wood fired unit.
It must have been the most economical way to do it cause in my experience chicken farmers are a frugal lot
I do know that cleaning out a frozen chicken barn is better than cleaning out a hot one!. The shut down did not appear to damage the floor slab in anyway.

 

[Egon]

does that mean that you MUST have it running always in cold weather to prevent heaving of the slab?

This will depend on the type of soil and the water conditions beneath the slab.

If water is available and it can percolate upward and freeze ice lenses may develop and heaving could result.

 

[fish6942]

Some here are suggesting using a water heater to provide the hot water for the in-floor heat. Be sure to compare the efficiencies between the water heater and a real boiler. You might be surprised how quickly the higher cost boiler would pay for itself.

 

[gpflepsen]

A couple thoughts after doing my shop with electric radiant. Look at the volitlity of oil/gas vs the usually reduced price structure for electric during winter.

I used this company's cable; Floor Heating Cable - Orbit Manufacturing Electric Radiant Floor Warming Cable , great quality.

Regardless of heat source, suggest going with 2" extruded foam (~40 psi) over a compacted granular fill of 2-4 inches. This will prevent heaves from frost if you should leave the slab cold for extended periods. If you have water problems, use drain tile or grade to correct. Lay down (chaired) welded wire mesh and tie away with the pipe or heat cable. I'd do 5" of 3500-4000 psi concrete slab for a shop without heavy equipment (50,000 lb trucks, etc.). Plan ahead for hoist and put footers in for those; isolate to the slab surface. They are not insulated from ground contact. Isolate the perimiter.

A concrete guy (doing a hard trowel finish is good for sweeping, poor for slick mud/water) should blind seam control joints at appropriate spacings. Concrete is concrete and is going to crack, let it crack where you want it to.

My shop was very comfortable with the floor set to about 60 degrees. Insulate the walls and cieling and you'll be happy as a pig in poo!

 

[laurencen]

At the log home we are completing I have pex in the slab, it has been -40 several days and it keeps the house comfortable to be in, I also installed a hot water air unit for circulating heat on the upper 2 floors but to date its not running due to dust from wood and drywall, in the shop 50 x 40 I installed in slab heat also, it is primed but not running till the contractor installs the overhead doors, there is glycol in the lines so I understand it does not freeze, will let you know, in another shop it has radiant overhead, this is prety good but with 10 foot ceilings its borderline parking under it, myself the in floor heat wins hand down, yes it has to be left on 24/7 but it runs at worst 20% output, after the pad had reached the set temperature its 7%, the log house has bills for heating 3,000 sq ft plus full basement of less than $100.00 per month this winter

 

[PILOON]

Boiler vs hot water heater.

Boiler connotates steam which is regulated by steam fitters and very dangereous as boilers run at high pressures.(and explode) Not plumber's work.

Hot water tank is simply to CSA standards and any plumber can deal with them.
A boiler can not deliver more than 100deg C heat (steam =100 degC)
Hot water tank delivers close enough to 100deg to do the job, IMHO.
I bet a 60 gal gas fired tank would do serious damage towards keeping that floor comfy!

To remember, floor heating is re-circulating the hot liquid (circulation pump) so you are not always heating up from 0, but rather 'boosting' the temp of the fluid when it comes back to the tank.
Possibly a control valve in line might be needed to slow down the circulation, (just thinking here).
Sure the coldest parts will suck off the heat first leaving the rest cooler until everything is 'evened up'.

 

[studor]

Sorry Piloon -- a "boiler" does not necessarily mean steam and a hot water tank can explode as well. Those external furnaces you see in the country side are essentially "boilers" -- they heat glycol which is then pumped though rads in the house. Modern boilers use circulating pumps to move the liquid through the system to distribute heat. Long gone are the days of heating the liquid into steam which drove the heat through the system without pumping. Some modern household systems use the "boiler" to heat household water as well on an "instant" basis. The big difference between a water tank and a boiler is that a tank is meant for hot water production and storage and a boiler is meant for heating.