Am I wrong?

[Northland]

Personally, I would tell him to take a hike. No one has the right to indiscriminately bill someone else for whatever he feels like charging; let alone 2.5x an estimated price.

I had a excavation contractor come to my property five years ago as I wanted a road put through the middle of my property and around the border. He suggested it would cost about $2500. I thought that was reasonable so I gave him the go ahead and he brought in a Linkbelt excavator and a JD bulldozer. He worked on the property for two and half days and did a fine job. I paid him $2500 cash and we were both happy

Three years ago I had a 26x28' garage built. After completion the experienced contractor told me the siding had cost a $1000 more then he had accounted for in his estimate and our signed agreement. I told him that was his problem and he needed to take that up with his supplier, Home Depot-not me.

He did good work but apparently figured, that since I am nice guy and like to treat people well, that I was a sucker and would give him more money. He figured wrong.

 

[marksmu]

Im an attorney, and a very reasonable person. I have had contract work on my ranch go well, and go badly. I once took a tractor in to have a remaned motor put in....the dealer gave me one price, for the motor, and labor.

When I got my bill he said it was MUCH harder than he thought, and tried to charge me addittional labor. I told him, I had my PO that I made (I always make PO'S) and that I didnt authorize addittional charges.

They ended up replacing alot of things on the tractor they didnt ask me about and didnt need replacing, and the total was $3500 more than agreed upon. I told them they should have asked me first and they said I should have told them not to do addittional work. They tried to not release the tractor, and I said Im paying for what I ordered and picking up the tractor. When I got there, the manager tried to make me pay...I said Im paying what I ordered, and if you have a problem with that sue me. Im taking my tractor today.

They got pissy, I said I will call the police and tell them your stealing from me, and then I took out my bar card, and he retreated, and I got my tractor. Shortly after they tried to collect the difference through a collection agency, and when they did that, I threatened the agency with violations of the Deceptive Trade Practices Act (DTPA) and said if it appeared on my credit I would sue them and the dealer...

Long story short - its over, and never appeared on my credit. Cant use that place again though.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I had some dozer work done on my property to level off a hill in order to make a level site for building my house. The estimate was for a specified number of hours @ a specified rate. It took him about 50% longer than estimated, but he let me know about 1/2 way into the job that it was taking longer due to lots of rocks in the soil and much more dirt to move than estimated. It ended up costing me about 10 hours more than the estimate. It was a verbal contract, but I agreed to pay the extra before he went over. I found out later that this guy had a habit of lowballing the estimate on his work and then after he starts jacking up the estimate. He did excellent work though and the job was completed quickly. I dont think I will use him again though without a contract for full cost and not just an estimate.

 

[LeadPoison]

Well I sent a very straight forward letter to him last night. I left no doubt as to how I feel and what my intentions are. I suppose it's a waiting game now.

 

[CurlyDave]

Well I sent a very straight forward letter to him last night. I left no doubt as to how I feel and what my intentions are. I suppose it's a waiting game now.

I don't know what you said in your letter, and I am not a lawyer. OTOH I have dealt extensively with contracts, and there are two possibilities here.

One is that you hired him to do a job and he estimated a number of hours. If the agreement was to pay an hourly rate, he shouldn't have gone over by that much, but if you agreed to pay for his time, he may have a case.

The second is that you hired him to do a job. In order to price the job, he estimated the time involved and an hourly rate, but his agreement was to do the job. In this instance he is owed no more than the amount he estimated for the job. The hour calculation was something he did on his own to establish a price. Even if he shared the number of hours he was estimating with you and you discussed them, this could have been to show you why his price was reasonable. If he agreed to do the job for a given price, even if he used hour estimates to show you the logic behind that price, you are completely right.

Since there isn't written contract, only a verbal agreement, a judge is going to have to decide what kind of contract you meant to enter into.

All the contracts I have been involved with, the more you know about the work being performed, the more likely the first scenario is and the less likely the second. OTOH, the less you know about dozer work, the more likely the second, more favorable to you, interpretation is going to be.

Surely a small claims judge is going to think that an accountant or a nurse is going to know nothing about operating a dozer and would have just wanted the job done. But, If you are a trackhoe operator, the judge will expect that you knew a lot about the work being done and might well have contracted for an hourly rate.

In a lot of ways, the more you know, or try to make an outsider think you know, the worse off you are.

Claims that the hours are inflated because you know how long it should have taken will probably work against you.

 

[exiled]

I dont think your wrong. I dont know what happened so I dont think he's wrong either. Clearly he did the job to your satifaction minus the bill.
I think you had some idea he was running over time. Sure you might not know every minute he was there but you have so sort of idea of the 20 hrs. You can eat up 20 hrs in 2 days easy. 2 1/2 days tops. I would be asking whats the holdup.

 

[forgeblast]

If he was doing work at both your place and your neighbors he may be trying to get both of you for more money. I would ask your neighbor if he is pulling this with him too. It could be that he is getting the bills mixed up or just trying to make some extra money.

 

[mrob2012003]

Lessons learned. I own a land clearing business. I never never give a verbal estimate. I always estimate more than what it will take. If the time is less than what I estimate, I charge for the time it took not the estimate. If the time it took exceeds the estimate I eat the cost. The customer always signs a services agreement. There is no such thing as a handshake anymore. You guys should come to an agreement on all this maybe you can meet him halfway. Point is he did the work he should get paid for the work. With no written agreement it will be hard to prove. He sent you a bill. He will have to prove the hours worked. I always have the customer verify the hours on the machine before I start and when I finish. I have the customer sign the hours statement on the contract. His word against yours. Other peoples experience doesn't matter. What you think takes an hour might take 5. Its up to the customer to use discretion when hiring someone. Unfortunately he will probably win in small claims court unless you have a copy of the estimate. Then you will probably come out a winner.

 

[J_J]

He said he had a couple of witnesses that heard the estimate. Now days you have to be careful ;what you say, some of those MP3 players can record for hours and hours. In some states you have to let the other person know that you are recording. At least you will know if he is a liar and fraud.

That hour meter should not be the gospel either, a lot of diesel operators will let the engine run on while taking long breaks, and whatever. It would be cheaper to hire someone, like a family member to watch the dozer operator full time and verify his honesty. Even so far as to video certain aspect of the operation which will be time recorded.

 

[LeadPoison]

It's been a while since I sent him the letter. I know he received it, but no answer yet. It's a waiting game now. I have a feeling a summons will arrive one of these days. So be it.