Water well prob, need ideas....

[MotorSeven]

2 years ago I put in a well. I have a small creek running thru the place, so an excavator dug a big hole & I had 11 tons of sand dumped in the hole. I used a 1 & 1/4 sand point driven type wll head that I drove down about 4' into the sand. The pump is about 30' away & has 6' of elevation. I used a new 3/4 horse motor & new pressure tank. There is a check valve at the well point and pump.
The system worked fine for about a year, then I noticed that the pump was running 2-3 min before shutting off & I can hear air in it. Thinking that I had a broken line, I dug the entire line up, pulled the well point, cleaned the screen & holes with a pressure washer, installed a new check valve & new pipe. It still did the same thing, so I just pulled the pump & checked the impeller...it looks fine. The pressure in the tank is set around 28lbs. It is now taking over 3 min to hit the shut off pressure.
Now here is the puzzling part, in the well house I have a 325 gal storage tank. If I switch the pump from the creek line to the storage tank, it shuts off after 40 seconds, and I hear no air..........

This thing is driving me nuts, not to mention spinning the meter on the pole like a gyro....$$$$.

Suggestions???

RD

 

[chh]

It sure sounds like an air leak. What kind of pipe did you use on the suction line? I used 2' O ring pipe once on a farm project on the advice of the plumber helping me. Even after is was covered and backfilled the high volume pump would pull air past the O rings. The system would work for several days and then airlock. Like to have driven me nuts. Finally laid wire and put in a submersible pump and the system never had a problem after that. I was on a 500' run with a gravity feed though so I had a lot more room for problems than you.
Do you have a way to pressureize the supply side? Maybe use water from the storage tank? I'd bet it would show you the leak if you could get the line up to 30 or 40 psi.

 

[Western]

I have a couple of "possibilities" but I'm not a well guy, only worked on mine when I have to.

1st thought , maybe cavitation, or basically stuck air pocket. Might try priming the whole system with water and giving it a go. Can be several cause for cavitation.

2nd thought, I had a similar problem and found the bladder in the pressure tank had ruptured, so basically the pump had to run longer to achieve the desired psi. changed to new tank.

Had an pressure tank on the ranch once that was "bladderless", so I had to use an air compressor every couple of months to keep enough air in it to help build pressure.

Probably not much help just a couple of ideas.

 

[charlz]

Now here is the puzzling part, in the well house I have a 325 gal storage tank. If I switch the pump from the creek line to the storage tank, it shuts off after 40 seconds, and I hear no air..........

Can you clarify here? When you "switch the pump from the creek line to the storage tank" are you pumping FROM the storage tank or TO the storage tank?

I'm pretty sure you mean FROM but I could be reading it wrong. If so it sounds like you either have an air leak or insufficient supply of water on the creek line side. Where is the check valve on the creek/well point line? Could be the water is draining out of part of the line and your pump is sucking air from a few feet of empty pipe? I had a foot valve on my pond pump go bad and caused this problem.

 

[Egon]

If so it sounds like you either have an air leak or insufficient supply of water on the creek line side.

When you dug the well point out was there lots of water?

The sand you have had dumped in can act as a filter and get plugged.

 

[tommu56]

Is the well pipe in a "caseing" if so check water level before turning the pump on and while its running my guess the stone filter to the creek is getting plugged and level is dropping at the well point for every foot it has to " suck" water it will reduce the flow by a given amount.

tom

 

[PILOON]

I gather your pump can draw from either creek or large storage tank and that the pump has its own small pressure tank attached.

Since air problem is only when using small tank it sure sounds like a tank bladder leak to me.
Those bladders are located inside of (generally) steel tanks and condensation makes rust causing abrasion to the bladders which in turn causes leaks.

Another maintainance item is the air valve on the tank (typical innertube valve) that often leak due to bits of dirt etc.
Start by replacing that valve stem and repressurise the tank with air using the recommended PSI setting. (I seem to recall it being 2PSI less than cut-out setting).
Incorrect PSI will cause those symptoms.
The owners manual will provide correct PSI setting.

 

[MotorSeven]

Y'all are quick. Let me answer these questions...

-I used 1 & 1/4 pvc schedule 40 pipe(remember I replaced all of it when the symptoms first showed up, and cleaned & re-inserted the sand point.
-I have primed the snot out of it, it does not sound like it cavitates when switched to the storage tank.
- I am drawing out of the storage tank when I close the line to the creek/sand point.
-The water in the creek is currently standing 10 inches over the sand on the bottom, sand point is about 4' below the sand.
-Pipe is not in a casing, runs 30' out from the well house, then drops 6' into the creek(all new pipe). No "O" rings anywhere.

Western, Piloon- you may be onto something, the water has alot of sand/grit in it. I installed a real big filter after the smaller ones were getting clogged & blowing thru. I had to stop using the charcoal filters because they clogged the fastest. There is no filter before the pressure tank & the pressure tank is in play when drawing from the creek or storage tank. This is what confuses me, if the pressure tank was comprimised, wouldn't it show the same symptom when drawing from the storage tank?
From creek- pump runs over 3 min, then tank is pressurized & shuts off.
From storage tank- pump runs 40 seconds, " " " ".

The way I see it I have these options(feel free to add to the list) to find the problem:

1-cut the pipe at the pump, lay a new one on the ground, put a foot valve on it and lay it in the creek.
2-install a new pressure tank.
3-install a 1 horse(new) pump.
4-give up and call a well digger to put in a "real" well....$$$$.
4-yank all my hair out and start drinking Rebel Yell straight from the bottle.

Before ya'll ask, no we do not drink this water, we have a spring at another location on the property(it would ne a logistical nightmare to get a line to the spring because there is a 40' wide creek in the way & it's 2000' away.)

Keep the ideas comming..........

RD

 

[tommu56]

MotorSeven

The sand might be sand blasting the impeller the head on the tank might be helping it.

The pipe might be filling with the sand or sediment if its getting past the well point.

on the dry fire hydrants have helped put in have a check valve on the end to back flush the sediments out of the line before you draft from them maybe you could do some thing like that and back flush it periodically.

or rig a sand trap before the pump

http://www.kunst.cz/doc/lpv_en.pdf

or reduce the size of the line this will increase the velocity and keep sediment in suspension.

tom

 

[MotorSeven]

When I pulled the pump last week there was very little sediment in the impeller area. How does reducing the size of the line help? It seems that the increased velocity of the water going to the pump would cause more damage from the sand blasting thru the impeller. I have thought about building a large(5' tall 8-10" in diameter) filter using charcoal, coarse sand & pebbles. Kind of like an aquarum filter on a much bigger scale.

RD