Engine Siezed, What to do?

[barneyrb]

If the crank is still in good shape I'd put rod and main bearings in it and run the snot out of it. I've followed this a little and have come to the conclusion that (from 500 miles away) you may have spun or stacked a rod bearing. That would cause the sieze you are speaking of. It may take pulling the head and either resizing a rod or a new rod. But then again I'm just a dumb country boy.

 

[carpenter383]

I do mechanic work as a side job in my garage. I have a 2001 voltswagon jetta with around 150,000 mi. in my shop with a seized engine. The guy bottomed out and knocked a hole in the oil pan, lost all the oil and ran it till it locked up! Anyway I pulled the motor and tore it apart, the rod bearings were shot, the main bearings had some visual wear but not really all that bad considering, the cams/bearings were fine. The cylinders still looked GREAT they still had the factory hone marks in them! Anyway I took the crank to the machine shop to have it turned he said he'd never worked on one of these engines before but was able to do the work, the machienist turned the crank then called around to find bearings. We can't find bearings ANYWHERE. So it's either a new stock journal crank or forget it and find a good used engine. Make sure you check on .010 under (If the crank is turnable) bearings before you go too far with this. From the sound of your situation I bet you could get by with just a bottom end rebuild. If you decide to tackle it yourself don't forget to mark the bearing caps and their respective locations. Good luck!!

 

[TrippleT]

First of all that was a horrible lesson. Secondly, I would do what the others have suggested. If you think you need more competent help, get it. By it stopping like that it doesn't sound good. I hate to be a harbinger of bad tidings, but if you spun a bearing in the block I would either have it line bored, or get a new block PLUS new bearings and related things. Believe it or not a Diesel runs off of thing that destroys gas engines. The knock we used to hear years ago with cheap gas.
If it ruined the crank and block you might consider a short block. I wish you the best and hope that it did not ruin the things mentioned.

 

[radioman]

Greetings and bless all for the input.

First of all, when I took the tractor back to the barn after the event, it did not sound right, nothing terrible, but just did not sound right.
Not only have I been extensively using my eyes watching the gauges, but even more importantly, I have become extremely accustomed to using my ears to learn the natural sounds of the various operations, (idle, running, the "ping" of when a bale is tied, love that sound, etc, etc).
Also, the tractor did not seem to be operating at normal power for the brief jaunt to the barn.

Granted, I was extremely upset at myself, and could have been hyper-sensitive, but even at the time, was aware of these facts and attempted as best as I can to objectively note anything worthy.

Plus, the tractor does not have a low oil shut off switch.
And the screech that I heard was absolutely no doubt in my mind metal on metal, not the belts.

Since then:

1). Pulled the pan, found significant metallic debris, (size of small shavings from a drill press), sighed, reassembled.

2). Received my shop manual today, (yeah!), that was coincidentally ordered three days before the event, (did I jinx myself?).

3). Still taking it in to a certified mechanic for thourough examination.

While I have basic capabilities and tools, I feel that this is above my pay-grade.
As previously discussed, peace of mind, and a tractor running the way it should are my biggest concerns.
I have to agree with Hooked on HP and others, I feel, (know), that there is damage, but hopefully can limit it, and repair to as good as it can get by taking it in now.
Yes the cost is something that I can ill afford, (probably topping out in absolutely worst case engine replacement scenario around 5 grand, sigh).
Yes, I am not making a living off of the farming . . . yet.
But me and the missus are trying to eventually get to the stage with our 5 & 10 year plan to help supplement our retirement, with beef cattle, and growing our own forage.
Plus we want to expand the size of our farm, (who doesn't?).
Thus, I want, ney, need, an effective tractor.

Finally, OP?
Is this what I think it is?
Me and the missus use the abbreviation OFP, (from the 80's movie Repo Man).
My momma doesn't think I am an OP.
Now I'm really POed.
A POed OP!
Plus, with my age, er old, and nationality, (Polish), this would make me a POed OPOP.
Or POed OP2, (squared).
Still.

Thanks everyone for the input.
This is why the site is the best for Newbie OP farmers like myself.

I will update with final results once they come in.

Sincerely

Leon and Therese

P.S. The day after the event we went into the field to look to see if we could see where the bolt dropped out, a 3 acre heavy growth alfalfa/orchard grass field that was cut and teddered. Like looking for a needle in a haystack, S*&^ you not, within 15 minutes the missus not only found the initial spot, but found the plug.
She really is the best.

Looks like you are doing the right thing. (my opinion anyway) I will be pulling for you and hope for the best. hopefully its repairable and cheaper then a engine replacement. Looks like you have done your homework and now there is nothing left to do but pray. However, Its refreshing to see that you have a sense of humor with the play on words of the OP or PO'ed etc. I nearly spit my coffee out laughing reading that part.

 

[IH3444]

Try the partsplace.com for your volkswagen bearings. These bearing are plentiful in .010" under, .020" under, .030" under. I find it an almost impossible story to believe........check ebay also.

I do mechanic work as a side job in my garage. I have a 2001 voltswagon jetta with around 150,000 mi. in my shop with a seized engine. The guy bottomed out and knocked a hole in the oil pan, lost all the oil and ran it till it locked up! Anyway I pulled the motor and tore it apart, the rod bearings were shot, the main bearings had some visual wear but not really all that bad considering, the cams/bearings were fine. The cylinders still looked GREAT they still had the factory hone marks in them! Anyway I took the crank to the machine shop to have it turned he said he'd never worked on one of these engines before but was able to do the work, the machienist turned the crank then called around to find bearings. We can't find bearings ANYWHERE. So it's either a new stock journal crank or forget it and find a good used engine. Make sure you check on .010 under (If the crank is turnable) bearings before you go too far with this. From the sound of your situation I bet you could get by with just a bottom end rebuild. If you decide to tackle it yourself don't forget to mark the bearing caps and their respective locations. Good luck!!

 

[carpenter383]

Try the partsplace.com for your volkswagen bearings. These bearing are plentiful in .010" under, .020" under, .030" under. I find it an almost impossible story to believe........check ebay also.

Well believe it. I've checked rock auto they only have a listing for main bearings, not the rods. The owner of the car found a volkswagen guru in canada who said he dosen't know of anywhere to get .010 under rod bearings. And he's had to break the news to more than one machinest on there first one of these engines. It's a 2.8 liter and considered a v6 but it's not much of a "v" at all. It only has one cylinder head, the cylinders are almost parallel but staggered. If the engine was here I'd post a pic, it's an odd looking thing.

 

[ToadHill]

Fond a good engine rebuilder and have the crank spray welded and re-machined to factory tolerances.

 

[SimS]

carpenter383;

I didn't know you had a VR6. Try this link: Display Part Information

A little spendy but what are you going to do for unobtainium parts! Good luck

SimS

 

[carpenter383]

carpenter383;

I didn't know you had a VR6. Try this link: Display Part Information

A little spendy but what are you going to do for unobtainium parts! Good luck

SimS

Yes it is a vr6, Thanks I'll pass the news on to the man spending the money. Apparently these engine don't fail too often or it would be easier to find parts!

 

[carpenter383]

Fond a good engine rebuilder and have the crank spray welded and re-machined to factory tolerances.

I've never heard of this, it sounds interesting I may have to do a google search just to see what is all about.

 

[TGD]

I was going to also suggest spray welding as a way of bringing the crank journals back to standard specs. Have to find a good machine shop that specializes in engine rebuilds to get it done properly. Then you can use standard rods and bearings and yes I would replace the rods, they may have stretched or deformed some when it seized. If the cylinders are scored badly from a broken ring, replace the liners. If the rings did not break, then cleaning any aluminum off with a hone (from melted pistons) from the liners will likely work and remain within factory tolerance. Pistons should be checked closely or replaced and any that had a broken ring will have to be replaced.
A good machine shop specializing in rebuilding engines like I mentioned above can handle all this for a reasonable cost (as compared to a new or rebuilt engine), but it is still a costly mistake.

Camshaft and bearings are likely to be ok as the crank and pistons will seize before the camshaft runs dry enough to harm something.


I would not run it any more as you could throw a rod and damage the block. Have a flatbed wrecker bring it to the shop if you or someone you know does not have a trailer and a way to put it on the trailer.

 

[PILOON]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToadHill
Fond a good engine rebuilder and have the crank spray welded and re-machined to factory tolerances.

I've never heard of this, it sounds interesting I may have to do a google search just to see what is all about.
__________________

Another process used is to grind under/over and plate back to standard.
Very commonly done on aircraft cylinders and I think they do cranks as well.

When a cylinder is plated to std, then non chrome rings must be used.

 

[Reg]

My guesses;
If it started up and ran once there was oil and a new drain plug a) camshaft and valve gear are at least functional.
If it has reasonable power b) Pistons are probably OK.

I would drop the pan and clean it out ANYWAY !

If it doesn't consume oil & if you don't have new/different colored smoke at new/different times - just stick with scheduled maintenance, you're probably good.

EDIT;
Well, in view of the funds/ca$h flow situation.....
It might not do any MORE damage to run it until you have funds.
I'm not suggesting false economy, but sometimes delaying an engine re-build is exactly the right thing to do.
Sometimes there isn't a choice, it is the ONLY thing you can do.
;END EDIT

 

[banjodunn]

G'day sorry to hear your plight I once had this happen on my dads 786 inter at 2600hrs (sump plug was not left loose disgruntled neighbor not happy with us getting lease on groundbut that is another story) with that I split the tractor and pulled the crank had it ground, new bearings and put it all back together and away it went 7845hrs and has still not had the head off (getting closer though starting to use a little oil). I would be doing the same as I did and have a good look under the pistons at the same time if the bores look ok leave the head on best of luck with it


Jon
24 years heavy diesel mech

 

[TrippleT]

As I have not read all the replies, I am going to throw something out here to check. Drop the pan pull the cap off the farthest main bearing from the oil pump, and maybe the center as well, IF the bearings look good, I would check the rods as well. If they are good then you may have gotten lucky, I HOPE.
Also look for scores and smearing on the crankshaft. You may want to look at all the bearings and have a good mechanic take a look as well. Sometimes it will amaze you at what you can get away with, and sometimes you will be amazed that it would not work. Good luck at any rate. IF, the crank and rod bearings are all right. I think I would not worry about the cylinders for a while and run it and see. Of course, if money is no object, take it to a good shop or dealer.

 

[gordyy]

do some checking
years ago when I was dumb enough to do some drag racing, we built a motor major bucks going to go for the glory that year!
three guys working on it all the while got it in hooked just enough stuff up to start it and give it a little fuel and maybe spin off some rubber,
droped the clutch gave it a lil fuel lots of squeeling then bang smoke weird noises ugly ugly smells pulled the dipstick nobody put in oil!!!!!
pulled the motor dropped the pan, stripped the crank long story short all we had to do was replace the rods and mains, it ended up being the best motor I ever had and we did hit glory that year (now I just wish I would have bought my own trophy would have been thousands cheaper)

keep your hopes up maybe you can get lucky