Hose crimps

wedge40 · Jun 13, 2009

The whole point of SAE standard is to have interchangeability. Well at least that's what I was taught in college.

Wedge

Wayne County Hose · Jun 13, 2009

wedge40 said:
The whole point of SAE standard is to have interchangeability. Well at least that's what I was taught in college.

Wedge

Ah-ha! Now we find out the malfunction! My dad always said that you can send someone to college but you can't make them think.

The SAE standard covers the hose and the portion of the fitting that designates it's fitting type. SAE standards do not cover the crimp. SAE standards also do not cover the internal dimensions of the hose. This being the distance between the wire spirals and the inner and outer covers. Within an SAE spec, this will vary. Which is why you should not mix hose and crimp fitting manufacturers.

J_J · Jun 13, 2009

Wayne County Hose said:
Ah-ha! Now we find out the malfunction! My dad always said that you can send someone to college but you can't make them think.

The SAE standard covers the hose and the portion of the fitting that designates it's fitting type. SAE standards do not cover the crimp. SAE standards also do not cover the internal dimensions of the hose. This being the distance between the wire spirals and the inner and outer covers. Within an SAE spec, this will vary. Which is why you should not mix hose and crimp fitting manufacturers.

This one of the references I referred to.

Hydraulic Hose and Fitting Compatibility
There are a number of SAE Standards that cover the performance requirements of hydraulic hose assemblies. Included are the J517, J516, and J343 Standards.

Hydraulic hoses that are claimed to meet SAE J517 standards (e.g. SAE 100R1 and SAE 100R2) need to be designed for, and certified to, the criteria defined by SAE. That criteria includes stringent dimensional tolerances (inside, outside, and braid diameters), compound and reinforcement types, length changes, cold flexibility, and ozone and heat resistance. There are also burst pressure and impulse requirements in J517. Those requirements are for coupled assemblies, and SAE states that "the general and dimensional standards for hydraulic hose fittings are obtained in SAE J526."

Hydraulic hose fittings that meet SAE J516 Standards are similarly well defined by SAE as to material type, dimensions, finish, etc. The SAE manual also specifically states that J516 fittings are intended to be used "in conjunction with hydraulic hoses specified in SAE J517, and utilized in hydraulic systems on mobile and stationary equipment."

SAE J343 is the standard that establishes "uniform methods of the testing and performance evaluation of the SAE 100R series of hydraulic hose and hose assemblies." Coupled assemblies are expected to meet or exceed SAE performance if the SAE criteria described above are met.

The integrity of any hose assembly depends upon the components, fittings, and hose meeting the rigorous SAE requirements, and then the components being assembled by skilled personnel. This is true regardless of where the components are manufactured. Testing has been completed on Kurt Manufacturing fittings coupled to Semperit hydraulic hose, and the tested assemblies have passed SAE performance criteria.

While there has been an integration of hose and fitting manufacturers, independent hose and fitting manufacturers can and will continue to produce top class products that will provide excellent assemblies just as they have done for decades.

Just what is the purpose of adjustable dies, if not to make things work better. There is no argument, that if you take brand A and use brand A fittings, and use brand A crimping machine, and a trained professional with years of experience, it would be hard not to get it right, but then again, it would be hard to come up with all the parts from the same manufacture to enable one to call factory Brand A hose assembly, one of the best. So in essence, if the hose has Weatherhead on it , or Gates, that means what?

However, if you take an unskilled person and give him a mixture of parts and hoses, that he just might make up a bad hose. You could probably give anyone the materials and some instructions, that in a short time, he could make up a usable and maybe even a certified hose, that meets any SAE standard. Just how many of you have had a hose assembly made up, and it just came apart rather quickly, and half the time, it was factory made up hoses. So, who's to blame. If you then take it to the tractor place, and they make up another hose, that is another person with different materials, and another crimper machine. Just who do you trust. Most of us would use the nearest place with reasonable prices, be it NAPA, hydraulic shop A, or hydraulic shop B. We just want it done, and time is important to some of us.

http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/Issue/Article/False/6566/Issue

wedge40 · Jun 13, 2009

Wayne County Hose said:
Ah-ha! Now we find out the malfunction! My dad always said that you can send someone to college but you can't make them think.

The SAE standard covers the hose and the portion of the fitting that designates it's fitting type. SAE standards do not cover the crimp. SAE standards also do not cover the internal dimensions of the hose. This being the distance between the wire spirals and the inner and outer covers. Within an SAE spec, this will vary. Which is why you should not mix hose and crimp fitting manufacturers.

Dem thar engineers who develop the SAE specs are really specific. I haven't read them, but I think JJ has and knows them better than some people here.
See above.

Wedged

J_J · Jun 13, 2009

wedge40 ,

Thanks, but I don't want to get into specs on material. There is just to much data out there, that can be refuted by anyone. I just try and use good common sense on most things. When someone says, that is the gospel, and written in stone, etc. It makes one wonder. I really do have some hard opinions about some things.

I want to say flat out , that I am not a hydraulic expert by any means, and don't claim to be. I know what I know by reading, doing, and making mistakes and trying to correct those. I try and use other peoples knowledge when I can, and I am willing to share what I know, with no reservation. If I am wrong about anything, so be it. I am sure someone will correct me.

scoyt · Jun 13, 2009

I am pretty sure that SAE does have regulations on crimps.....but I don't have a hyd. hose shop............

J_J · Jun 13, 2009

This is what Parker has to say about their products.

Read in particular to items 3.2---3.4.

http://www.parker.com/literature/Safety Guide - 2007-11 - Final Revision.pdf

Wayne County Hose · Jun 14, 2009

Hydraulic hose fittings that meet SAE J516 Standards are similarly well defined by SAE as to material type, dimensions, finish, etc. The SAE manual also specifically states that J516 fittings are intended to be used "in conjunction with hydraulic hoses specified in SAE J517, and utilized in hydraulic systems on mobile and stationary equipment."

Hmmm. Interesting. So then why do most of the crimps made by different manufacturers all look so different? How come Weatherhead crimp is longer than an Aeroquip crimp? How can a Gates crimp be 2 piece? How can an Aeroquip crimp have deeper teeth than a Weatherhead crimp? I'm confused. I thought they are all supposed to have the same dimensions?

What was written in that post was not SAE standards but somebody's opinion. I would feel much better if I saw actual SAE standards quoted or a link to the actual standards.

J_J, I am glad that you are keeping an open and honest mind about this. Parker and every other major manufacturer says not to mix and match brands and they do explicitly waive any liability should anyone choose to mix brands. This being said, there are some that choose to just engage in a peeing match when they have very little knowledge on the subject. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, this thread is closed.

Andy

wedge40 · Jun 15, 2009

Wayne County Hose said:
Hmmm. Interesting. So then why do most of the crimps made by different manufacturers all look so different? How come Weatherhead crimp is longer than an Aeroquip crimp? How can a Gates crimp be 2 piece? How can an Aeroquip crimp have deeper teeth than a Weatherhead crimp? I'm confused. I thought they are all supposed to have the same dimensions?

What was written in that post was not SAE standards but somebody's opinion. I would feel much better if I saw actual SAE standards quoted or a link to the actual standards.

J_J, I am glad that you are keeping an open and honest mind about this. Parker and every other major manufacturer says not to mix and match brands and they do explicitly waive any liability should anyone choose to mix brands. This being said, there are some that choose to just engage in a peeing match when they have very little knowledge on the subject. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, this thread is closed.

Andy

SAE J516 (R) Hydraulic Hose Fittings - IHS, Inc
http://aero-defense.ihs.com/document/abstract/YSSEIBAAAAAAAAAA
Google is your friend. Most SAE standards require a subscription or you have to pay for each document.

BlacknTan · Jun 15, 2009

I'm sorry to see Andy bow out of this thread... I think he's a good guy that offers good advice!

I've learned alot.. maybe more than I ever wanted to know.. but, it's been educational.