Hose crimps

[DieselPower]

I wouldn't blame the SAE. The standards are a set specification, how they are implemented in manufacturing is another thing. They have no control over how someone makes something, they just supply the standards. I deal with standards from the SAE, ASTM, NGLI and API, not to mention dozens of manufacturers spec's on a daily basis. The standards or specifications are there for the manufacturer to use when manufacturing something. Just because they can't manufacturer up to a certain spec doesn't make it the standard setters fault.

Think of it this way. You want me to cut a piece of wood to a length of 12 feet long. I cut your piece of wood to 12 inch's. Your spec was 12 feet, not 12 inch's. Is it your fault (the standard setter) I can't read a tape measure?

 

[wedge40]

I wouldn't blame the SAE. The standards are a set specification, how they are implemented in manufacturing is another thing. They have no control over how someone makes something, they just supply the standards. I deal with standards from the SAE, ASTM, NGLI and API, not to mention dozens of manufacturers spec's on a daily basis. The standards or specifications are there for the manufacturer to use when manufacturing something. Just because they can't manufacturer up to a certain spec doesn't make it the standard setters fault.

Think of it this way. You want me to cut a piece of wood to a length of 12 feet long. I cut your piece of wood to 12 inch's. Your spec was 12 feet, not 12 inch's. Is it your fault (the standard setter) I can't read a tape measure?

I agree whole heartedly. My point is if the manufacture is saying they are meeting SAE standards then the parts will fall with the specified SAE tolerance's. If I ask for a 12 foot piece and wood and they give me 12 inches then they're not meeting SAE standard and as such can't claim they are.

Wedge

Wedge

 

[Discount Hydraulic Hose]

I am sorry if my post offended anyone here. I am not here to bash anyone, whether they be manufacturers, dealers, or end users. Since our company was already mentioned by several members in the discussion, I simply wanted to share some additional information with you.

There are some fittings that should never be used with some hoses. Whether you buy all of your materials from one manufacturer or from multiple manufacturers, it is still possible to put the wrong fitting on a hose, or to attach the right fitting improperly, and have hose failure result.

However, if the fitting is crimped properly and the hose and fittings are both manufactured to the appropriate SAE specifications, your hose assembly should perform according to those SAE specifications, regardless of who manufactured either the hose or the fittings.

Have we had hoses fail? Of course, we have. But every hose crimp failure that I have personally investigated has been the result of improper assembly. Most of the time, the fitting was either overcrimped or undercrimped. In some cases, the crimping equipment was not maintained properly and new dies corrected the problem.

I have yet to see a hose fail simply because someone used Brand X fittings with Brand Y hose. There are always other factors involved, and we are trying to discuss those factors here.

Let's keep it light, though. I'm not about taking food from someone else's table, and this isn't the place to speak poorly about anyone, competitor or otherwise.

In order to comply with forum rules, my business phone number and contact information have been removed from my profile. If anyone wants to contact me directly, they can send me a private message.


Ken Hutchinson

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I personally have hoses and fittings at my shop where the crimp pulled off the hose. One in particular, which I have posted a picture on this site, is a Weatherhead factory crimp installed on a competitors 100R2 hose. The crimp was well within spec. I personally know the company that bought the hose from a competitor of mine. I have also worked on the machine the hose was installed on. The operator told me that as soon as he pulled the valve, the hose pulled from the crimp. Again, the crimp measures well within the Weatherhead spec.

I'm not here to bash anybody either. You can find posts by me on this board where I tell people to buy from DHH. My issue was Ken only posting when he could get a sale out of it. I don't know if Ken owns a tractor or could even operate one. I don't believe he posts here to help people. I firmly believe his only motive is to make sales for his company. Now I'm not saying this makes him a bad guy. Just pointing out the truth. I have bought hose and fittings from DHH and probably will in the future. Unless after this they won't even pick up the phone when I call.

Andy

 

[Discount Hydraulic Hose]

Don't worry, Andy. We will still take your phone calls. I would rather you didn't try to read my mind, though. While I'm not opposed to making a dollar or two, my motives also extend to helping people and sharing information. Just ask my friends, and they'll tell you I'm a compulsive "teacher."

I don't post here often, because you are right about one thing. I don't own a tractor, and I don't know to operate one personally. I'm pretty sure I would cause a ruckus if I parked a farm tractor in front of my apartment building in Philadelphia.

But I do know a thing or two about hydraulic hoses, and I thought this thread was a place to talk about them. I also thought I had something to contribute to that discussion. Whether that leads to sales or not is less important than sharing the information.

I have asked the moderator for clarification on this issue. If I'm in violation of any site rules by participating here, I will not post again.

Ken

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Ken,

Honestly the only issue I had was you posting only when you could push your products. Your posts more resembled an advertisement than anything else. If you are genuinely here to help out then welcome and we hope to see more of you.

Andy

 

[tlbuser]

Personally, I'd hate see to see either one of you guys disappear. I have a huge need for my local guys and a desire to shop on the internet from time to time. I usually get hoses, parts and advice from the local guys. I often get oddball, non-stock stuff off the internet.

 

[tlbuser]

It's been a good learning experience...

Wow. I just picked up on this thread. What a positive outlook and ownership you're posting for us. Thanks

 

[J_J]

I think I am going to chime in here, just because I can. Most of you know how things work in the real world. Money talks and can usually buy the best of anything. You should also know that some of us are financially challenged, and we have to do what we can, if it means buying less expensive hose, so be it. Just because you buy from a brand name vendor, is no guaranty that it will not break or burst. I don't think the markup should be so high, but it is, primarily because they can. Quality is what you make of it, whether you make it up or a vendor. I don't believe the local vendor test any hose they make for the end user, so really, what is the guaranty, that what they did will not come apart, otherwise, the labor. and I guess the manufacture guaranty's the material. You probably know that all the hose and fittings are not tested. Probably a section of hose, and say 1 fitting out of a 100. You don't always get what you pay for. I think it's based all on the people behind the counter, and what they can do for you. I don't ask for a particular name when I ask for a hose or fitting, although some of you might. I want something that will work at a reasonable price. I will even bet that some of those hose assembles with screw on fittings have come apart, why, many reasons. Most of the stuff we buy is just average, even if it does last a long time, it is still avg, why, because the other 99 lasted just as long. What does all this add up to. Build what you want, buy what you want, do what you have to do to get it done.

 

[J_J]

It seems like some of you are suggesting that hydraulics fittings,hoses, etc, are not interchangeable. Then just what is the purpose of a cross reference. such as the one below. Sure they might be problems if all things are not considered. I can see where an individual might not have the equipment and know how, and adjustable dies to do a super job, but that individual might be able to compensate for small differences.

So, really, what are some of you saying, that if I had a hundred Weatherhead fittings, and a 1000 ft of Gate hose, that I could not make up a hose that might work for a lifetime, or be equal to factory made up hose. I also think that if I sold a product, I believe I would brag about how much better it is, than the competitor, because, it could be. The people at the hydraulic repair facility should be knowledgeable enough to make hoses and fittings work together. That would be like a Chevy mechanic saying, I can't work on a Ford.



Coupling Cross Reference - Kurt Hydraulics

http://www.kurthydraulics.com/compatibility.php

Hydraulics 101 by Gates

http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=Hydraulics101.pdf&folder=brochure

 

[Discount Hydraulic Hose]

Personally, I'd hate see to see either one of you guys disappear. I have a huge need for my local guys and a desire to shop on the internet from time to time. I usually get hoses, parts and advice from the local guys. I often get oddball, non-stock stuff off the internet.

I'm not going anywhere. I've discussed this with the moderator, and he has encouraged me to stay. I will, however, attempt to limit references to the company I work for.

Also, my contributions will be limited to threads about hydraulic hoses and connections. That's the stuff I know, and that is where I can be of the most help. If one of you starts asking me questions about the gearbox on your John Deere, I'm just going to stare at you blankly, cause I don't nothing about no gearboxes.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

It seems like some of you are suggesting that hydraulics fittings,hoses, etc, are not interchangeable. Then just what is the purpose of a cross reference. such as the one below. Sure they might be problems if all things are not considered. I can see where an individual might not have the equipment and know how, and adjustable dies to do a super job, but that individual might be able to compensate for small differences.

So, really, what are some of you saying, that if I had a hundred Weatherhead fittings, and a 1000 ft of Gate hose, that I could not make up a hose that might work for a lifetime, or be equal to factory made up hose. I also think that if I sold a product, I believe I would brag about how much better it is, than the competitor, because, it could be. The people at the hydraulic repair facility should be knowledgeable enough to make hoses and fittings work together. That would be like a Chevy mechanic saying, I can't work on a Ford.


Coupling Cross Reference - Kurt Hydraulics

Hydraulic Hose and Fitting Compatibility

Hydraulics 101 by Gates

http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=Hydraulics101.pdf&folder=brochure

The Gates link I couldn't open ad the Kurt hydraulics cross reference is merely for part # interchange, not fitting to hose compatability.

Nobody is saying it's like a Chevy machanic can't fix a Ford. What I am saying is that you can"t put a Chevy water pump on a Ford motor.

 

[wedge40]

Nobody is saying it's like a Chevy machanic can't fix a Ford. What I am saying is that you can"t put a Chevy water pump on a Ford motor.

Beat to fit and paint to match.

Wedge

 

[BlacknTan]

Well... went to "Ye Olde Hydraulics Shoppe" today.. an Aeroquip dealer, btw, for a few fittings... One fitting was "Made in China".. The other from South Korea. I asked the guy behind the counter about it, and he replied that Aeroquip products are sourced worldwide..

Sometimes ya' just can't win fer losin! LOL

 

[J_J]

Well... went to "Ye Olde Hydraulics Shoppe" today.. an Aeroquip dealer, btw, for a few fittings... One fitting was "Made in China".. The other from South Korea. I asked the guy behind the counter about it, and he replied that Aeroquip products are sourced worldwide..

Sometimes ya' just can't win fer losin! LOL

That just proves a point about hoses and fittings. I wonder if they guaranty the product if made elsewhere. So much for buying certified name brand fittings. How about the hose, you all reckon that all that hose comes off the same role and they just put a different name on it.

Wayne , what would say to a mix of parts to make up a hose and call it a name brand product, and charge name brand prices. One has to be skeptical these days about people, places , and things. If everyone made part to SAE spec's there would not be such a problem.

You all had better check out that next women you get, it might not be.

 

[Charlesaf3]

I personally hope Hydraulics guy and wayne county hose both stick around. I'd patronize a local hose shop if I could, but all I've got around here is NAPA, and they really aren't that interested in making hoses.

And since my lack of knowledge about hydraulics is huge, I really appreciate learning from people who know this stuff.

 

[BlacknTan]

I guess it's just a sign of the times more than anything else... And actually, the South Korean fitting looks to be high quality and very nice!

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I can't speak for anyone else's product, but most of the fittings on my shelf say, "Made in China." Sorry. If you can find a fitting made in this country, or anything else for that matter, then good for you. I don't like it as much as anyone else. But, ponder this. Most of what I read on this board about hydraulic hoses are people belly aching about price. What did you expect the manufacturers to do? It's what all of you asked for. No, sorry, on second thought you didn't ask for it. You demanded it! Don't blame the manufacturer for what you demanded.

J_J, I know shops that put cheap Weatherhead knock-offs on their shelf and charge Weatherhead price. So when you do get a hose from a shop, make sure it is what they say they sell. I can't tell you the name of it, but I do know of a shop that grossed well over $2 million and got their distributorship pulled for doing this.

 

[wedge40]

I tend to disagree. The country did it them self. We kept asking for more benefits and higher wages. At some point when profits gets too low, stock holders say you have to do something and the company shops for any way to save money. Cheap labor, low or zero taxes, etc. I don't feel bad about getting stuff made out of country, be it China, Japan, Mexico what ever. We did it to our selves. Now we'll have to deal with it.

Wedge

 

[IceStationZebra]

My 2¢ on the whole SAE thing...

Yes theoretically you can mix-and-match parts from different vendors. But...
1) The hose and hose end are a "system" and dimensional compatability does not guaranty performance.
2) Nobody has tested every combination, therefore nobody will stand behind it.
3) My life is worth the extra $3 for the correct hose ends. I regularly work on 1" hoses at 4000psi and I take this seriously.

ISZ