Dimwit on the road!!

[Jstpssng]

Things happen.... All the time. Some are not benign. Does that justify imposing your brand of conservatism on others. Living is the sole cause of dying. Everything has some risk and is perceived differently by each. What you describe is an unlucky situation arising directly from a clot and an infraction by one of the "safe" drivers participating. If you had to brake that hard the turning driver didnt give proper notice and the reaction stackup of the tight clot made it a bad situation. A seven foot long motocycle is not going to affect the distance you have to stop to any appreciable extent - unless he just clamps them on and stops faster than you can. Im surprised the rider didnt chose to brake easy and get out of the potential squeeze by moving over - experienced motorcyclists are very atuned to this option when they encounter a need for a quick stop in traffic. Even tho going faster than you the MC stopped fine. His tires werent smoking but yours were and the bike behind was having trouble. Im not sure whether you over reacted or not, but the MC didnt cause this - the clot did. If he hadnt been there yould still have had a hard stop. Yet you are quick to cast blame based on what ifs for the people who try to move thru the clot. What about the person who started it by overtaking the leader and sitting on his bumper and not passing? No complications for him; clear lane ahead just check for oncoming traffic. Defensive? Afraid to pass? An under the radar traffic hazard? --Catalyst for problems with traffic flow yet free of all responsibility for such. Far too often the defensive driver causes problems, especially when they think they should impose their concept of safety on everyone.
larry

Driving is more than stepping on the gas and turning the wheel.
Whether on a bike or in a car, if you pass at a high rate of speed (those speed limit signs are there for a reason) then cut me off and slam on your brakes YOU are creating the situation. What you call a "clot" is normally a line of traffic moving at a sane speed for the conditions, whether it be snow, a dumptruck, or turning traffic. YOU create the hazzard, with your need to be in front. A safe space becomes unsafe when you pass unsafely, then pull in and slow down.
I encounter guys like you on a regular basis; traveling along in your own little bubble blaming everyone else when the road isn't clear. I've learned to leave a little more space in front of me to account for your errors.

 

[JGY]

Last time I checked this is America, I don't have to drive the speed limit! I can drive s---l---o---w---l---y. Sorry, unless, of course, there is the minimum speed limit of say 35mph or 45mph!

L8r,
Joe (the slow)

 

[aczlan]

Yeah. Clots grow when people overtake and then dont pass, and further, dont stay back enuf to leave space for the next overtaker to fit in between in a sequence pass. You are good to leave space. Odd that you would assign negative judgement to a passer for stopping in, rather than to the closely packed drivers behind the lead vehicle.
larry

Well, I left a little more than what I normally do in front of me because I was not in a hurry. However on that road there is not enough space to do a sequence pass, as such, if you arent the first one in line, you WILL NOT be able to pass safely (safely being defined as passing in a passing zone without going over 70 in a 55). There are 3 places where you can pass, one is in a 40mph zone, one is in a 55mph zone and one is in the next 40mph zone. All are just long enough to safely pass ONE car IF there isnt traffic coming the other way. As such, people who pass "just to get further up" are defined (by me) as either: someone who does not know the road or, an idiot.

Last time I checked this is America, I don't have to drive the speed limit! I can drive s---l---o---w---l---y. Sorry, unless, of course, there is the minimum speed limit of say 35mph or 45mph!

True, however courtesy to your fellow drivers (and your own safety) suggests that you follow the speed limit unless forced to go slower by weather conditions.

Aaron Z

 

[SPYDERLK]

Well, I left a little more than what I normally do in front of me because I was not in a hurry. However on that road there is not enough space to do a sequence pass, as such, if you arent the first one in line, you WILL NOT be able to pass safely (safely being defined as passing in a passing zone without going over 70 in a 55). There are 3 places where you can pass, one is in a 40mph zone, one is in a 55mph zone and one is in the next 40mph zone. All are just long enough to safely pass ONE car IF there isnt traffic coming the other way.. As such, people who pass "just to get further up" are defined (by me) as either: someone who does not know the road or, an idiot.
Aaron Z

Thats what I mean by a sequence pass. What if the clot were going well under the speed limit? Why would you consider them idiots? ... They are potentially diluting the clot -- and, even if they cant get free of it, that section of road does not neccessarily end at the ultimate destination for all people. [At least I would assume that.]
larry

 

[tallyho8]

Here's the situation. I'm in a hurry and I'm on a narrow 2 lane road with a slow dumptruck in front of me. I want to pass as soon as I legally can but this narrow twisting road has double yellow no passing lines for about 3 miles at a time and then when there is finally a short stretch to pass, there is a lot of oncoming traffic and I have to wait for the next passing zone 3 more miles down the line.

Now the jerk behind me is on my bumper because he wants to pass me to get in front of me so he can pass this truck at the next passing zone instead of me passing it. He thinks I am causing this clot but I want to pass just as bad as he does.

SPYDERLK, It seems that you are saying that I should slow down and let this jerk pass me and get out of the clot first when I am planning on going as fast as I legally can and pass as soon as I safely can. I disagree. I say I am in as big a rush as he is and I was here first so why should I slow down and let him pass me?

Now if I had no intention of passing and was in no hurry, then I agree that I should keep back a distance from the truck to let others who want to pass get around me, but in most cases, those ahead of us in the clot are all in the same hurry and want to stay in line to pass as soon as safely possible so, excuse us, if we don't recognize that you are someone special who we should give up our place in line for.

 

[aczlan]

Well, I left a little more than what I normally do in front of me because I was not in a hurry. However on that road there is not enough space to do a sequence pass, as such, if you arent the first one in line, you WILL NOT be able to pass safely (safely being defined as passing in a passing zone without going over 70 in a 55). There are 3 places where you can pass, one is in a 40mph zone, one is in a 55mph zone and one is in the next 40mph zone. All are just long enough to safely pass ONE car IF there isnt traffic coming the other way.

Thats what I mean by a sequence pass.

It looks like I did not make myself very clear, if you are in passing zone #2 and can only pass the 4th person back you will not be able to make a sequence pass on this road because after the third passing zone there is no passing until it hits the next town (big town ~3 mins after the third passing zone). As such, there is no point in trying to pass unless you can get into the second slot by the second passing zone. Also, as Tallyho said, what if I want to pass and the other drivers do as well but there is not enough The people causing the trouble are those in the 1st and 2nd slots, the other cannot SAFELY pass. and if it is like most of these "clots" the person in the 2nd slot is too close the person in the 1st slot to safely get between them for a sequence pass.

What if the clot were going well under the speed limit?

What difference does it make? you can only pass in a passing zone when there is not traffic coming. Then those in the #1 slot should be able to pass first as they have been in the clot the longest

As such, people who pass "just to get further up" are defined (by me) as either: someone who does not know the road or, an idiot.

Why would you consider them idiots? ... They are potentially diluting the clot -- and, even if they cant get free of it, that section of road does not neccessarily end at the ultimate destination for all people. [At least I would assume that.]

This is just for that section of the road because of the way the passing zones are set. There are two reasons I call them idiots:

1. What if I am in the #2 slot (having sequenced passed my way in or having gotten stuck when #1 pulled out in front of me) and do not yet deem it safe to pass (because there are cars coming the other way whenever we are in a passing zone). Does that give someone else the right to pass me and try to pass #1 before me? I have had idiots who have passed me and then car in front of me from the #4 slot when I was in the #2 slot with my blinker on and when I was beginning to change lanes to pass #1 myself. Generally they have been in little fwd cars with lots of bling and fart can mufflers or BMW convertibles with NJ plates
2. When you are far enough back that you will not be able to SAFELY sequence pass before the road goes into a big town and you pass anyways that is not safe or smart

Here's the situation. I'm in a hurry and I'm on a narrow 2 lane road with a slow dumptruck in front of me. I want to pass as soon as I legally can but this narrow twisting road has double yellow no passing lines for about 3 miles at a time and then when there is finally a short stretch to pass, there is a lot of oncoming traffic and I have to wait for the next passing zone 3 more miles down the line[snipped]

I agree

Aaron Z

 

[SPYDERLK]

Here's the situation. I'm in a hurry and I'm on a narrow 2 lane road with a slow dumptruck in front of me. I want to pass as soon as I legally can but this narrow twisting road has double yellow no passing lines for about 3 miles at a time and then when there is finally a short stretch to pass, there is a lot of oncoming traffic and I have to wait for the next passing zone 3 more miles down the line.

Now the jerk behind me is on my bumper because he wants to pass me to get in front of me so he can pass this truck at the next passing zone instead of me passing it. He thinks I am causing this clot but I want to pass just as bad as he does.

SPYDERLK, It seems that you are saying that I should slow down and let this jerk pass me and get out of the clot first when I am planning on going as fast as I legally can and pass as soon as I safely can. I disagree. I say I am in as big a rush as he is and I was here first so why should I slow down and let him pass me?

Now if I had no intention of passing and was in no hurry, then I agree that I should keep back a distance from the truck to let others who want to pass get around me, but in most cases, those ahead of us in the clot are all in the same hurry and want to stay in line to pass as soon as safely possible so, excuse us, if we don't recognize that you are someone special who we should give up our place in line for.

You are describing a special restrictive situation and displaying a bit of an attitude in the bargain. Flash your brake lights. Whether or not you leave a little space, that "jerk" cant pass you because theres no passing zone. Perhaps he doesnt know where the next zone is. Maybe you are in as big a rush and maybe you arent. If he passes illegally let off the gas to aid prevention of a situation that serves him right from serving you right too. - Otherwise, take your close position with intent and signal on at the next passing zone.

Let me describe a more generic situation on open road with numerous passing zones, from marginal to [mostly] ample, and one speed zone in 25mi. I travel this several times a week. It is a fact that many overtake and dont pass. I see it happen ahead of me. I see it happen with people who overtake me even tho I always slow down a couple at the next open passing zone so they can move on if they want - then I speed back up whether or not they do pass. I dont know why they dont pass, but if they leave space they will present no problem to any subsequent overtaker who doesnt choose to slow his travel absent real necessity. I never see clots develop behind me because I travel a couple on the topside of the limit and an overtaker who will get on my bumper for that will pass and I will aid him. Unfortunately tho there are enuf drivers out there who will overtake one going below the limit and sit close behind and not pass regardless of good visibility and ample opportunity. Its like they fall into a rocking chair. I see this every day i think, but often enuf for sure [from the 2nd car back] to make a reasonable generalization. A big clot developes in no time. I have seen this so much that I will go ahead and pass someone I have previously overtaken, and settled in to follow a comfortable distance behind, when I see us overtaking another vehicle. Unless I have seen them pass I dont know that they will or will leave space. And if they wont - there you go...
larry

 

[Bird]

This argument is going nowhere. Thread closed.