Preferred gas engines for 1 ton pickups

[Steve C]

Initial cost is not the primary driver. If I go with an 8-10 year old 1-ton PU, it'll likely have well over 100K miles on the odometer. I don't have any experience buying such high mileage trucks (I bought my 2001 F150 with the 4.6L Triton engine in 2004 with 30000 miles on the odometer).

My concern is to avoid as much major engine/tranny repair cost as possible by making a smart truck purchase. I hear that gas engines for 1-ton PUs are less expensive to repair than diesels. And, as you can see from some of the posts to this thread, apparently some of the automatic trannies in 1999-2003 1-ton PU are not that reliable. The automatic tranny in my neighbors 2001 F250 failed a few months ago and he spent $2800 to get a rebuilt installed. So I guess I'm being pointed in the direction of a manual tranny. Problem there is that 1-ton PUs with manual trannies are a lot harder to find than automatics.

I have been a manual transmission guy all my life. It has always been my first choice. Before I bought my new GMC in 2003 I was shopping for used diesels with standard transmissions. I was suprised at the number of them that have had transmisions rebuilt, and several of the dodges had the rear ends rebuilt. These were mostly 1997-2001 trucks I was looking at, most with 80-100K miles on them. I finally gave up looking at them, the new truck wasn't all that much more money with the incentives going on at the time, I paid 29k for mine, the used trucks I had been looking at were in the 18-22k range.

When I bought my 03 GMC I could only find 2 1 ton deisel trucks with manual transmissions to test drive, a Chevy and a Dodge, both 1 tons. I hated the way the Chevy manual transmission shifted, it was worse than the 59 Ford stake truck with the 5 peed and split axel I drove on the farm as a kid. I just couldn't get used to it. The Dodge seemed to shift much nicer for me at the time.

Then I drove a Chevy 1 ton with a Diesel and an Allison transmission.

There is no going back. The first red light I pulled away from when I crossed the painted crosswalk stripe I lit up all four rear tires and burned them all the way accross the intersection!

I had been so used to a standard transmission that I gave it the same amount of throttle that you would normaly use while engaging the clutch from a stop (I had been driving a 5 speed manual GMC since 1991, 12 years). I had failed to allow for what the torque converter does. Now I know why almost all of the newer big rig trucks are automatics. When the going gets tough it makes it a lot easier to get going. It will crawl its way out of sticky going without spinning a wheel. By the same token if you put 12,000 lbs behind it and shift it into tow/haul mode on dry pavement it will just about stretch the trailer hitch when you stomp on the throttle. I also like the way it downshifts to help with the braking. I seldom touch the brakes when getting off expressway ramps except for the final 100 feet at the end of the stop. These newer trucks have so much reserve power I seldom use the tow/haul mode on the transmission unless I am pulling over 9,000 lbs. I almost hate to say it but I have been converted, at least for heavy duty use.

I have not driven a 8.1 gas v8 with the Allison transmission, but I would expect good results. The guys that I know that have them seem to be pleased with the capacity to move heavy loads with relative ease. They just suffer a little at the fuel pump when compared to the diesels, but they make some of that up when I buy fuel filters and oil changes.

 

[Crash101]

I told myself not to reply to this thread because I don't have anything to add to what's already been written. I do believe though, that if I were looking for a truck with your objectives, I'd look for as new as possible Ford V10 or GM 8.1. A low mile Dodge V10 would be fine, but they're getting old now and may be hard to find, therefore that choice would be lower. An old GM 454 would be ok, but they need some aftermarket help with exhaust and especially intake restrictions. California could cause you some inspection problems with those mods.
Hold out if you can to find a GM 8.1, they didn't change a lot so year won't be much of a concern or a Ford V10, the newer the better because of improvements in transmission, power and mileage in the later years. The Ford would be my first choice but many could effectively argue the GM is jut as good overall.
All the best in this quest, hopefully just what you're looking for is right around the corner.

 

[crashz]

Keep looking for a well maintained used truck and you should be fine.

Regardless of engine and transmission choices and truck brand, any late model heavy duty truck will tow to your requirements with big V8/V10 engines. So first and foremost, if I were in your position, I'd be looking for the truck in the best overall condition and lowest miles. Keep it well maintained, don't exceed its capabilities and I'm sure you'll be happy.

Keep in mind also that most people who upgrade to the V10, big block or diesel are doing so on purpose. So used trucks with the bigger engines COULD have been used harder.

Maintenace of the gas vs diesel: I'd say diesel is bit more expensive. Generally they hold more engine oil and have bigger filters. Fuel quality is highly varible and a bad tankful will eat up filters.

Repair costs and ability to find qualified techs is where there is large margin. Seems like there is shortage of parts and know-how on the diesel side. Even my old 87 is expensive to repair. And I'm my own "tech"! (term used loosely)

 

[dodge man]

Well I've owned both an older 98 Dodge and a newer Dodge with a Hemi. There is no comparison, the Hemi out pulls the older engine by a mile. The newer Hemis are making 375 Hp I believe. I think the Hemis they put in cars and trucks are pretty much the same. My wifes 300C even has a tranny, oil, and power steering coolers.

If you have the luxury of shopping for a while, just wait for the right truck at the right price to come along, gas, diesel, auto, stick, what ever. We all see these deals come along that are a great price, just jump on it when you see it.

 

[flusher]

Well I've owned both an older 98 Dodge and a newer Dodge with a Hemi. There is no comparison, the Hemi out pulls the older engine by a mile. The newer Hemis are making 375 Hp I believe. I think the Hemis they put in cars and trucks are pretty much the same. My wifes 300C even has a tranny, oil, and power steering coolers.

If you have the luxury of shopping for a while, just wait for the right truck at the right price to come along, gas, diesel, auto, stick, what ever. We all see these deals come along that are a great price, just jump on it when you see it.

Yep. That's pretty much what I'm doing now--keeping my wallet shut and just shopping around.

Every time I'm in Roseville, I hit the used truck dealers along Riverside Ave. I really drool over some of the 1-ton diesels on the Car Systems lot

Car Systems

 

[Diamondpilot]

That guy has a ton of them.

Chris

 

[D7E]

If initial cost isn't the main reason you're thinking gas, then I'd go with a diesel any day. You'd be happy you did on the first hill with the trailer behind your truck.

Maybe with an older cummins but i've had enough of the problems with newer electronic diesels in any brand..!

 

[mojoinco]

If you are looking at SRW, then don't forget the 3/4 ton trucks. Specs for 3/4 & 1 ton trucks will show the differences: springs and shocks (for the same engines -- diesels and big blocks generally get larger drive trains & various components over small blocks). The important issues are: the larger (sometimes optional, but usually std in diesel and large gas engines) cooling systems, big axles, big brakes.

When Dodge only made the 3500 as a dually, the 3/4 ton truck could be optioned pretty close to the others 1 ton SRW's. The 95-~2000 Dodge's were noted as being somewhat under braked. About 2001 they changed the brakes. I have a couple of friends that had two each of these series and had the same complaints on the pre-2001 models. Another friend has a 2002 3500 (cummins) that he travels to Ohio and back. No issues brake wise.

Think about the older trucks, as long as it is in good condition, nothing wrong with a 460,454, etc.

We did the same thing 6 years ago (for similar reasons as you: maint costs, purchase price) and bought a 92 f350 SRW, 4x4; 460, manual. Selling it now with a whole 111000 miles on it. Replaced the front brakes and rebuilt the front drive shaft. Oh, and the battery. and emptied the catalyst when it melted down (still passes smog every 2 years). That's it.

The diesel concerns of maintenance and cost for the limited return (infrequent use and pulling a horse trailer -- no need for speed, but for smooth) worked. Now we have a larger trailer, time to upgrade. Going to see what the costs will be for diesel now! Also expect to pick up the miles per year considerably.

As a comparison, a friend has had two similar trucks with the 7.3. Both have had the water pumps replaced. The first one (~8 years ago) cost ~$600, installed. The other was replaced last year by his now diesel mechanic son (don't know the cost). And he has bought at least one set of injectors. WHEN they need repair, diesels cost more; quite a bit more. It's one thing to buy a fairly new truck, quite another to buy one that is fairly old (used or not). Go with what you know, or can get local help on easiest.

There is a lot of help in the user groups, and each year/model/brand has unique details (for example: 92 460's are about as low powered of any of the fuel injected 460's were). Some are good, some not so good. Ford and Chevy probably have the best after market support and spares (non-dealer). And for the CARB world, probably the most options as things need replacing.

 

[FlaDon]

I have not driven a 8.1 gas v8 with the Allison transmission, but I would expect good results. The guys that I know that have them seem to be pleased with the capacity to move heavy loads with relative ease. They just suffer a little at the fuel pump when compared to the diesels, but they make some of that up when I buy fuel filters and oil changes.

I had a need to check the OM this weekend and found that in my truck, the 8.1/Ally/4.10 was rated 100 lbs more load towing than the same truck with the DM/Ally/3.73. Might explain why some of us don't mind the little extra fuel cost at the pump.

 

[Duffster]

I had a need to check the OM this weekend and found that in my truck, the 8.1/Ally/4.10 was rated 100 lbs more load towing than the same truck with the DM/Ally/3.73. Might explain why some of us don't mind the little extra fuel cost at the pump.

A whole 100 lbs Eh?