Front-End Loader How do I make a 3PH Blower work on a FEL

[J_J]

MichiganIron


Thanks for your input. That is about what I was trying to say, but you guys did it, and you should know.

 

[dourobob]

I really appreciate the comments - especially from Michigan Iron who has "been there"

So, now what do I do.

I think I finally get it. The best and simplest option, if I want to use the full potential of my Meteor 75 Snowblower, is a PTO pump, an external hydraulic reservoir and a hydraulic motor mounted at the blower.

The manufacturer, M K Martin, indicates this unit needs 50 HP.

According to the calculation performed on http://www.metaris.com/hydCal/ I need a pump capable of 25 GPM at 3500 PSI or 30 GPM at 3000 PSI. in order to get 50 HP.

Based on an earlier recommendation, I looked at the PTO pumps at Burden Sales Surplus Center and could not find a pump with these specs.

Most pumps max between 2000 and 2200 PSI and 20 to 22 GPM which translates (according to http://www.metaris.com/hydCal/) into 24.5 to 29.5 HP.

Did I miss something?
Should I be adding another 20% to these numbers to compensate for the 80% efficiency?

Any idea where I might find a suitable pump?

And, once I have a suitable pump, what specs do I need to have for the Hydraulic motor driving the snowblower to work properly?

Appreciate anything that can help on this project.
Bob

 

[J_J]

Do you have enough HP to run a pump that large. You are probably talking 60 to 80 HP for the tractor and everything that it has to run.

This pump will pump 30.2 GPM at 2500. By the time a hydraulic motor develops the HP, it will be about 43 HP.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009120815200937&item=9-4071-B&catname=hydraulic

 

[lungdoc]

No way a 75" blower needs 50 PTO HP. Maybe a 50HP tractor recommended. Our 78" (rear PTO) blower runs fine on a 48HP Deere 4320 w 40 PTO HP; most people go bigger than that and 5 HP/foot should be plenty.

Take a good look at Frontier blower with PTO pump specs - that's a 76" blower with 35-46 PTO HP recommended. Flows etc. all on the website. Deere blower

This seems to be an expensive way to go about it if you don't already own the tractor. I'd look for a package deal (used if able) on a tractor with a mid-PTO front blower and cab and sell the other blower before having to go to huge trouble and needing a bigger tractor than I otherwise might require.

 

[dourobob]

Take a good look at Frontier blower with PTO pump specs - that's a 76" blower with 35-46 PTO HP recommended. Flows etc. all on the website. Deere blower

Thanks lungdoc
Sure looks like one of those Prince pumps should be able to do the job based on the Frontier info.

Looks like I may want/need to wait for a Princess Auto Sale.
Bob

 

[dourobob]

This pump will pump 30.2 GPM at 2500. By the time a hydraulic motor develops the HP, it will be about 43 HP. https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2009120815200937&item=9-4071-B&catname=hydraulic

Thanks J J I had a look at that unit - I am not sure how many GPM I would get if I put it on a 540 PTO. The specs say 30.2 Gal @ Max RPM (3000) and 23.6 @ 1800 RPM
Does that mean somewhere between 7 and 10 GPM at 540 RPM. Ideas?
Bob

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Thanks for your comment(s) Ken - sounds like a great idea and I shall look at it seriously. The dealer where I got the tractor will be interested too as he has another customer with the same size tractor who also wants to run his snowblower at the front.

One thought, and I'll display my hydraulic ignorance here, could there be an issue of having enough reservoir for an "high flow" set up with an additional smaller pump?

Bob

Depends on what the reservoir size is. The only reason you need reservoir is for cooling unless it is so small the pumps cavitate. (suck air) Being its a winter application I would be inclided to just monitor the temps. Youcan alway add a cooler with a fan later if need be.
Ken

 

[skidsteer.ca]

I am wondering:
1 - Does it make any sense for me to run a 9-10 gal pump off my PTO and tie it in to the tractor system? Then I can turn it on and off as required using the PTO.
Yes,it is just a matter of finding a pump that will give you the additional flow you need at the rpm the pto runs.

2 - Would the PSI have to be identical?
Yes the pressure will be equal in both pumps as you are combining the flow of each into a single hose to your blower motor.

3 - How do I combined the flow from the two pumps (tractor and PTO) to operate the snowblower? With a T connection or ??
Basically a T, but done with a valve.
On the skidsteer system both pumps always run. With a pto you would have the option of shutting the second one off.
Power on on the skidsteer valve combines the flow of both pumps, power off allow the flow of the second pump to escape back to the reservoir under minmal pressure.
In your situation you could shut off the pto and have a simple check valve preventing reverse flow through the pto pump. Because your main pump is going to still pressurize that T.

4 - Would I need a second 10 gal reservoir for the PTO pump? If so, how do I get a balanced return of oil to that reservoir as well as to the tractor reservoir.
In theory you should have more reservoir but you can't have more then one because the flow is combined to the motor and the will go to which ever reservoir has the least flow restriction to go to when it leaves the motor.
The tractor would have to have suficent reservoir. Additinal cooling if required (it is winter, and how long will you run it at a time? factor in) would need to be done with a oil cooler in the return line.

5 - Are there other adaptations?
Yes but the goal is to keep the complexity down, right?
( don't ask me why but my S185 bobcat has a tridem pump for hi flow, for some engineering reason I guess )
6 - or am I missing something really fundamental here??
maybe, lets hear the discusions.

I realize that one 23 GPM pump off the PTO would run the snowblower but it requires a larger reservoir and appears to be more expensive - once again, am I missing something?Bob

First off 6 gals fits is a cubic foot of tank so the tank for a pto only pump setup would not have tobe too big.
Secondly it depends on duty cycle and ambient temp as to how much cooling you need.

Ken

 

[J_J]

dourobob ,

What s the engine HP. Is it Hydrostatic transmission, and how large is your hyd pump. What is your PTO HP rating. I will say this again, the HP available is going to be the limiting factor. If the specs on the blower tell you that you need 50 HP, then that is what your tractor pump needs to develop, the GPM's and the pressure.

If it said the blower needs a 50 HP tractor to run it, then you need a 50 HP to run everything the tractor has to do in the operating of blowing snow. With less HP, you can blow some snow, but, will you be satisfied.

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Thanks J J I had a look at that unit - I am not sure how many GPM I would get if I put it on a 540 PTO. The specs say 30.2 Gal @ Max RPM (3000) and 23.6 @ 1800 RPM
Does that mean somewhere between 7 and 10 GPM at 540 RPM. Ideas?
Bob

Don't make it over complicated, 23.6 gpm devide by 1800 rpm times 540 rpm is 7.08 gpm.

To run with only a pto pump you will need one that pumps alot of oil per revolution, because the shaft turns fairly slow, 540 rpm (unless you have a 1000 rpm pto option) So likely best with one of the pto pumps.
I'd go with the larger one and plan on running the system at a lower pressure. (provided this pump does not force you into ungoddly large bore pumbing expenses)Remember the hp it will draw will not be maxed all the time, because the pressure in the sytem will fluctuate as your using it. You can also reduce the max hp it draws by setting the relief valve pressure lower if need be.
As for using up all your engine hp, remember when the demand of the blower is high (another way of saying the pto pump system pressure has climbed to the max or relief valve setting) ,the tractor will be going slowest or stopping to let the blower catchup. So the wheels and steering won't need much.

I would not be afraid to select a pump that can use all the engines hp.
If it is too much and the engine begins to stall, then slow down or lower the relief pressure.
Ken