Problems with float

[RobiBX2230]

So this seems a bit of a ridiculous question, but I'm having issues with the float on my loader and quick hitch -- I have used float on my Uncle's JD before without any problems, so I know what it is and how it works so I'm no dummy -- but has anyone had issues putting their loader into float -- and no, there is nothing interferring with the controls (Kubota BX2230 with LA211 Loader/BX2753 Quick Hitch)

 

[kennyd]

If it has never been used (or used very little), then most likely the detent balls in the endcap are rusty. A lot of Kubota valves have a tendency to collect moisture in the endcaps and cause the float to stop working. The solution is to drill a small drain hole and pack with grease after cleaning it out. Lots of post's in the Kubota and Hydraulics forums about this.

 

[RobiBX2230]

REALLY dumb rookie question --- Detent ball is the ball in the valve on the tractor that I'm hooking my hoses up to, correct? Are we assuming they are sticking not allowing the loader or any implement to go into float?

 

[kennyd]

I searched for you, here are some links:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/118134-no-float-kub-4-way.html

FEL Controls freezing...How to solve? - TractorByNet.com

LA853 Frozen Control Valve - TractorByNet.com

Loader "float" freeze-up in winter - TractorByNet.com

 

[JB4310]

REALLY dumb rookie question --- Detent ball is the ball in the valve on the tractor that I'm hooking my hoses up to, correct? Are we assuming they are sticking not allowing the loader or any implement to go into float?

No, those are just the quick couplers fluid stops, what Kenny is talking about is something you can not see, kinda part of the loader valves stick linkage, but inside the valve. it's a locking action similar to a ratchet wrench's "detent ball" on the square drive part, that holds your socket or extension on.

It just holds the the stick in the full forward position, kinda pops in and out with a little extra effort.

I'm not familiar with the known problems he referred to but if you want to try again, What I tell people is either try it with machine off or when engine running at low idle, lift the loader off the ground a couple of feet and push the stick forward all the way, the loader will start to go down under pressure, now apply more pressure forward, not enough to bend the stick but enough to overcome the resistance of those never or little used balls and springs.

Are we sure this machine is capable of float? if so give it another shot as described with out getting crazy and breaking something. if that doesn't do it then you'll have to take something apart.

JB.

 

[RobiBX2230]

Thank you Kenny - the post with the pictures will help me a lot -- I think I remember float working when I got the tractor in September, but even after clearing my driveway for an hour in the winter it still was a bit tricky and I don't think I ever really got it in float correctly resulting in quite a few scratches in a new $6k driveway

 

[RobiBX2230]

No, those are just the quick couplers fluid stops, what Kenny is talking about is something you can not see, kinda part of the loader valves stick linkage, but inside the valve. it's a locking action similar to a ratchet wrench's "detent ball" on the square drive part, that holds your socket or extension on.

It just holds the the stick in the full forward position, kinda pops in and out with a little extra effort.

I'm not familiar with the known problems he referred to but if you want to try again, What I tell people is either try it with machine off or when engine running at low idle, lift the loader off the ground a couple of feet and push the stick forward all the way, the loader will start to go down under pressure, now apply more pressure forward, not enough to bend the stick but enough to overcome the resistance of those never or little used balls and springs.

Are we sure this machine is capable of float? if so give it another shot as described with out getting crazy and breaking something. if that doesn't do it then you'll have to take something apart.

JB.

Well, with the machine OFF, I can get the loader control stick to stay in the up position, but if the machine is on, the loader or whatever I have on the front of the machine will pick the entire tractor up. My manual for the loader does say it has float.... I've got to be missing something simple....

 

[JB4310]

Well, with the machine OFF, I can get the loader control stick to stay in the up position, but if the machine is on, the loader or whatever I have on the front of the machine will pick the entire tractor up. My manual for the loader does say it has float.... I've got to be missing something simple....

Wait a second, you say it will stay in the up position?

That's not normal, which way are you moving the stick for up?
You may just have the 2 lines reversed, meaning when you push stick loader goes up and when you pull stick back loader goes down.

jb

 

[RobiBX2230]

Wait a second, you say it will stay in the up position?

That's not normal, which way are you moving the stick for up?
You may just have the 2 lines reversed, meaning when you push stick loader goes up and when you pull stick back loader goes down.

jb

No, when I pull the stick back the bucket goes up and push it forward the loader goes down. I've got those right. I mean that when the tractor is off and the stick is in the middle/rest position - if I pull it down as to lift the loader and let go, it pops back to the middler/rest position. However, if I push the stick forward as to lower the bucket, I can get it to stay there rather than popping back to middle/rest position. If the tractor is on and I do that, it will lift the tractor up

 

[JB4310]

No, when I pull the stick back the bucket goes up and push it forward the loader goes down. I've got those right. I mean that when the tractor is off and the stick is in the middle/rest position - if I pull it down as to lift the loader and let go, it pops back to the middler/rest position. However, if I push the stick forward as to lower the bucket, I can get it to stay there rather than popping back to middle/rest position. If the tractor is on and I do that, it will lift the tractor up

Ok there's your problem and that's why I suggest that at first you do it with the loader off the ground.

Because it's lifting the machine you back off before engaging float, it kinda scares you away.
If it's staying there when machine is off then you should be good to go, once you get the hang of it, it wont scare you and you'll do it confidently, but with the bucket on the ground it's a little harder cause it seems like your doing something wrong, also not sure but with the weight on it, it may be harder to engage float. if you do get it to go in with the front end up in the air it will crash down making you think you're really doing something wrong.

JB.

 

[RobiBX2230]

Ok there's your problem and that's why I suggest that at first you do it with the loader off the ground.

Because it's lifting the machine you back off before engaging float, it kinda scares you away.
If it's staying there when machine is off then you should be good to go, once you get the hang of it, it wont scare you and you'll do it confidently, but with the bucket on the ground it's a little harder cause it seems like your doing something wrong, also not sure but with the weight on it, it may be harder to engage float. if you do get it to go in with the front end up in the air it will crash down making you think you're really doing something wrong.

JB.

Thank you for the information - I'll have to try when and if I get the FEL back on - right now I have the front mount snowblower with a quick hitch - I should be able to get this into float also.... I hate to have stuff crashing down to the ground, yes it makes me think I'm doing something wrong.

 

[JB4310]

Really no reason to engage float with bucket on the ground, for me I use float for snow removal on every pass and just engage float as bucket is going down. I can do it no problem when bucket is on the ground but just not necessary.

That up and down bucking has scared many newbies, there has been several discussions just like this.

.

 

[RobiBX2230]

Really no reason to engage float with bucket on the ground, for me I use float for snow removal on every pass and just engage float as bucket is going down. I can do it no problem when bucket is on the ground but just not necessary.

That up and down bucking has scared many newbies, there has been several discussions just like this.

.

Its funny you say to engage float as the bucket is going down - my Uncle's JD, he will engage it like 6 feet off the ground - but it works great so no need to worry --- me on the other hand, a rookie, I'll have to try it out - we are getting several snow storms and now that I have the snowblower on it'd be nice to float it instead of trying to move it up and down as I go...

 

[JB4310]

Thank you for the information - I'll have to try when and if I get the FEL back on - right now I have the front mount snowblower with a quick hitch - I should be able to get this into float also.... I hate to have stuff crashing down to the ground, yes it makes me think I'm doing something wrong.

Is the loader valve used to control the raising and lowering of the blower?
If so then I would think that you will need float to keep the blower following the contour of the ground.

IMO, You just have to more confidently push it in.


JB.

 

[JB4310]

now that I have the snowblower on it'd be nice to float it instead of trying to move it up and down as I go...

Absolutely, I don't have experience with front mounted blowers but would think it would be a necessity.

.

 

[RobiBX2230]

Is the loader valve used to control the raising and lowering of the blower?
If so then I would think that you will need float to keep the blower following the contour of the ground.

IMO, You just have to more confidently push it in.


JB.

Yes, the loader control stays on the tractor and I use it to raise and lower the blower which is hooked to a quick hitch on the front bumper. I'll try it tonight and see how loud of a bang it makes if float isn't working properly haha

 

[JB4310]

Yes, the loader control stays on the tractor and I use it to raise and lower the blower which is hooked to a quick hitch on the front bumper. I'll try it tonight and see how loud of a bang it makes if float isn't working properly haha

If working properly you would back up with blower lifted and as you start forward you would lower blower close to ground and then hit float, so the blower wont come down to hard.

Good luck, I've got to go out and clear a couple of inches, gonna be dark in an hour and I've been procrastinating all day.
jb

 

[kennyd]

Wait a second, you say it will stay in the up position?

That's not normal, which way are you moving the stick for up?
You may just have the 2 lines reversed, meaning when you push stick loader goes up and when you pull stick back loader goes down.

jb

JB

He has a Kubota, the joystick is mounted up on the loader mast, so moving the stick "UP" to him is your "Forward"


Also, many Kubota users have to keep their hand on the joystick to keep it in the float detent because to the joystick orientation-often whey they hit a bump the joystick will pop out of the detent.

 

[JB4310]

Well that explains alot, Me not knowing what he means by up and down

I could see how with a vertically mounted valve that it might bump out. That might get annoying, but with power steering and hydro, I'm mostly resting my right hand on the loader stick anyway, though holding it "UP" might not be easy.

JB

 

[RobiBX2230]

I searched for you, here are some links:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/118134-no-float-kub-4-way.html

FEL Controls freezing...How to solve? - TractorByNet.com

LA853 Frozen Control Valve - TractorByNet.com

Loader "float" freeze-up in winter - TractorByNet.com

Kenny - these were really helpful - however I can't seem to get them off my tractor - do they just unscrew? I'd like to take them off to drill holes to deal with the moisture.