Hydro's and brake pedals

[chevyman29]

i bet after that you had to rush that thing to the jd doc with internal hemoraging. what were you thinking using your tractor in way it was designed for . how thoughtless of you.

 

[dex3361]

JB4310 what are you thinking mixing blue and green you need to get that blade painted asap or take your pics in black and white. Talking about getting things stirred up start mixing tractor colors.

 

[JB4310]

You must have a good eye, I edited those picture so much so the tracks in the snow would be more visible, I thought it killed the color already.

You think this would rub people the wrong way Ya, we're a mixed up house here.

 

[jinman]

And for what you are doing with a four wheel drive tractor is a dealers dream!!! More parts and repairs!!!!! Brakes today are used for stopping. Slidding front wheels around stress steering components right from ball joints to the hubs and wheels which we sell for those who use tractors like you!

Art, I'm not going to make wise remarks about you and what you do or do not know about tractor operation. You are giving us your honest interpretation and I appreciate that. I respect your opinion and expertise, but clearly, I disagree; here's why.

Everytime I operate my tractor when doing loader work, I push my bucket into the ground or a pile of dirt and every time I see one rear tire spin more than the other. It's just physics. One tire will have the most traction based on uphill/downhill or loose/firm dirt. If I am in FWD, I often see one front and one rear tire spin. If I step on the differential lock, I can make three tires spin, but most likely never all 4. I would challenge you to tell me how using differential brakes is any different than what the differential normally does when working a tractor heavily. How is using brakes to control steering when backdragging any different. How is using a brake to hold your tractor staight in a furrow or to keep the FEL from digging in on one side any different? Granted, when the differential does it, there is no brake wear, but using brakes should not cause anymore damage than the differential to "hubs and wheels."

Now, if you mean locking one wheel and spinning around while dragging the front wheels sideways, then I'll agree this should not be done. But, our brakes are only on the rear tires. I challenge you to tell me how my supplying resistance with a brake pedal is any different than mother nature doing it with friction on the ground. Something just doesn't add up to me.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Now, if you mean locking one wheel and spinning around while dragging the front wheels sideways, then I'll agree this should not be done. But, our brakes are only on the rear tires. I challenge you to tell me how my supplying resistance with a brake pedal is any different than mother nature doing it with friction on the ground. Something just doesn't add up to me.

Jim, that is how I interpreted what Art had said. And doing this with a 2WD tractor or in 2WD should not be that big of a problem.

Jim, have you done a U-turn in 4x4 mode with your tractor using the cutting brakes? I have tried it with my 7520, and to tell the truth, they don't really help all that much. Yes it is a tighter radius, but not enough to warrant what it puts the tractor through.

 

[Hematite]

So when a person has a PTO implement that has a lot of mass to get going, you think that it is better to just let it go instead of easing into it? I prefer to get it going slowly, but that might just be me.

You are correct, I was thinking of another piece of equipment that I have. I have not used the PTO since I bought the New Holland because I bought it with the backhoe attached. The NH instructions do say that the proper procedure to engage the PTO is to gradually move the PTO engagement lever to engage and increase RPMs. I presume that this could be called "feathering".

As to the placement of hydro controls and brake pedal/ pedals, I would agree with the majority that I prefer the brake pedals and hydro controls on opposite sides. I've noticed that on garden tractors the rocker hydro control and single brake on the same side are a popular idea. The rocker control for the hydro is sort of mandated by the comparative narrowness of the foot platform on these smaller tractors. The left foot on my smaller tractor has the control for hydraulic lift and the rear axle locker so it is reasonable to put the single brake on the right side ahead of the hydro rocker control.

To my thinking, the hydro rocker control works well under the circumstances of garden tractor use which is mostly grass cutting and snowblowing where it is not necessary to make numerous or quick changes in direction. Having used both systems, the side by side pedals for the hydro are infinitely preferable on a larger tractor, particularly for FEL work. At the same time, a larger tractor should also have seperate wheel brakes to enable better manueverability and control in particular uses. To make the best possible use of the brakes, they do need to be on the left side.

When I did compare compact tractors I realized that, for me, sxs hydro pedals, opposite side dual brake pedals and mechanical lever PTO engagement were very important features that were a must have. Again, those are my opinions and my ultimate decision has proven those choices to be correct.

 

[Egon]

There was a time when the Farmers used the brakes when making square corners while working the field or turning on the headland.

 

[jinman]

Jim, that is how I interpreted what Art had said. And doing this with a 2WD tractor or in 2WD should not be that big of a problem.

Jim, have you done a U-turn in 4x4 mode with your tractor using the cutting brakes? I have tried it with my 7520, and to tell the truth, they don't really help all that much. Yes it is a tighter radius, but not enough to warrant what it puts the tractor through.

Yep! I've noticed that in FWD the front end is far more sluggish to come around and I don't try to force it. In 2WD, it's much more responsive. I have shifted out of FWD into 2WD and locked one wheel to get out of a tight situation, but I don't do it on any regular basis. I'd call it easily the exception.

What I do find with using brakes to steer is that I normally do it when I have the steering in it's maximum locked position and the tractor is still pushing forward because of implement drag. A tap of the correct brake pedal seems to have immediate results and I can straighten my front wheels almost immediately as the tractor moves into the track I needed. An implement buried in the ground tends to move in the same direction and sometimes overpowers the front wheel steering without aid from rear wheel brakes.

I would also caution anyone to not slam around a 4WD tractor for any reason. The frontwheel hubs and bevel gears are just not as beefy as the rear differential and transmission. Be gentle and smooth in your operation and your tractor will respond without failing. For example, spinning a tractor around on snow and ice is surely easier on the front end than doing it in the middle of a plowed field or on pavement. Consider your equipment, where you are, and what you are doing. Skill is all those things put together.

 

[art]

Jim, I tell it from the tractors that I see in my shop! To tell people in general such as you do here on the open internet you have opened up brake use for every child operator as well as those that just don't have the foggiest idea of how to operate a tractor or that just forgot what is right! I can say that I have thousands of hours on thousands of tractors for operating experience and I just don't normally find any need to do it!

Common sense doen't exist in many areas of this fine country anymore!

We have a lot of hills here and it is hard to find a good balance for tractors to cover ground where just to pull a pivot tongue mower across the rear end is sliding down the hill. I will still try to sell them the proper weight balance and the tires that are needed to not destroy the tractor or to hurt anyone. We have at least one roll over a year at a minimum in our immediate area.

There are times that I do use the brakes to steer but it is rare as if I have to do it all the time, it is time to re-tire or reballast!!!!!!

Two wheel drive of sixties and seventies vintage tractors only turned as tight with a wide front end as the bulk four wheel drives built ten years ago not even counting today!!! There are some exceptions from the older tractor redo's but for the most part they will turn better as pointed out without the brakes.

We can get into lead lag ratios which your dealer can and should be able to talk about but most fronts turn fast enough they do pull the rears around. To not do that tells of a lag situation where the air or tires are causing the problem of lack of ability to turn.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Jim, I tell it from the tractors that I see in my shop! To tell people in general such as you do here on the open internet you have opened up brake use for every child operator as well as those that just don't have the foggiest idea of how to operate a tractor or that just forgot what is right! I can say that I have thousands of hours on thousands of tractors for operating experience and I just don't normally find any need to do it!

Common sense doen't exist in many areas of this fine country anymore!

We have a lot of hills here and it is hard to find a good balance for tractors to cover ground where just to pull a pivot tongue mower across the rear end is sliding down the hill. I will still try to sell them the proper weight balance and the tires that are needed to not destroy the tractor or to hurt anyone. We have at least one roll over a year at a minimum in our immediate area.

There are times that I do use the brakes to steer but it is rare as if I have to do it all the time, it is time to re-tire or reballast!!!!!!

Two wheel drive of sixties and seventies vintage tractors only turned as tight with a wide front end as the bulk four wheel drives built ten years ago not even counting today!!! There are some exceptions from the older tractor redo's but for the most part they will turn better as pointed out without the brakes.

We can get into lead lag ratios which your dealer can and should be able to talk about but most fronts turn fast enough they do pull the rears around. To not do that tells of a lag situation where the air or tires are causing the problem of lack of ability to turn.

Need to? Have to? There is a sliding scale to that requirement. Everybody needs them to some extent, but few have to have them. Funny thing is that those who know they need them wont settle for not having them - - even if they could do without they wont settle for the handicap resulting from doing so.

ALL fronts on conventional 4wd tractors get into a lag situation in a turn, resulting in them being pushed some. This is one reason differential brakes will always help at full steering lock regardless of surface - and more as the surface gets slippier. It was not pointed out that 4wd tractors would turn better w/o the brakes, a false statement that would have been refuted. Instead it was said that steering brakes worked better if 4wd was disengaged. Theres some truth there, but both the 4wd and brakes together will contol it thru the slippys better than either alone.
larry