Hydro's and brake pedals

[RobertN]

Actually, after rereading parts of this thread, something else came to mind.

Market driven. What is the market for SCUTS, CUTS, and some utilities? A big part of the market is homeowners/small property owners. Another part is rentals.

For a large portion of the market, what are they used to using? A car, or a pickup. What is generally the proper use of a brake pedal in a car or pickup? Use the right foot for both. Left is not used, or is used for the clutch.

So for a what I would assume is a large market segment, having the brakes, on the right, does make sense.

O.K. I won't blame the right footed three pedaler. Its my fault.

Really, though, why did they even bother to put them there? Why didn't they put them in the preferred spot. the spot where they are the most useful? I have not seen anyone on this board say they prefer them on the same side as the direction pedal(s). It is a shortcoming in the design plain and simple. Yes, we can learn to work with it. That doesn't make it a good design.

 

[Egon]

The JD 4200 I have has three brake pedals. Individual brakes on the left and one main brake on the right. There is no clutch pedal.The individual brakes do come in handy for certain types of jobs where the front wheels are off the ground and unable to make the tractor go in the desired direction.

Note: Several weeks ago I had an incident where the HST linkage had disassembled itself without my prior knowledge. This resulted in the HST pedals not centering but remaining where ever my foot had placed them. Having to stop my instinctive reaction was the right foot on the brake. To use the left brakes would have taken longer as thought would have to given to that action. When loading on the trailer and my left foot on the brake's that impulsive right foot just acting on its own got the brakes set before the left foot even new to press it's pedals. This instinctive reaction may have come from using the right foot on vehicle brake's for most of my life!

My Kubota B7100 HST had the center drive train one straddled so my right foot brakes were always locked together as my foot is too small to use the HST and Brake at the same time.

My current thoughts on ergonomic design would tend toward a joystick and control by wire with much higher than 12 volt's and use of more complete electric systems. Even electric brakes! And the wiring systems would not include any dangling wire and connectors!!!

 

[MossRoad]

Uh, hello (you too Moss road)

What is hard to understand about the concept of it not making a difference where something is if it isn't used and isn't in the way of anything that is used?? That being the case my brake on the right configuration is just fine, not unlike my not caring where the cigarette lighter is on the dash since I don't smoke.

Since I don't unlatch the bar connecting my cutting brakes together into a single brake pedal and since my HST brings me to a stop pretty fast so I don't use the brakes very often (except to set the parking brake when I am stopped and NOT using the HST pedal) having the brake pedal on the right is NOT A PROBLEM and works fine for me and probably thousands of others.

If someone has what they need and can use it to good advantage whatever the configuration then I am happy for them IRRESPECTIVE of the color of their paint. Many of us have HST and brakes on the right, especially with Kubotas. A very small percentage is bothered by that. Those who have it and are sorely displeased have my sympathy regarding their inability to clearly define their requirements prior to purchase.

So far as treating the issue like some sort of religious litmus test is concerned...

It is not a case of ignorance is bliss. I am fully cognizant of cutting brakes, their use, and am quite experienced in same (dune buggies) but I don't have a use for them in doing what I do with my tractor. It has NEVER been an issue with me, I don't have to suffer to find workaround solutions, I don't miss being able to easily use them because I have had, in well over a thousand hours of use on this Kubota NEVER wanted or needed to use them.

I unlatched the brakes one time and played with the cutting brakes when the tractor was new. They work fine and are a little clumsy because I had to "heel and toe" but I can do that just fine if I need to but just don't need to do so. My loader is easily removed and reinstalled in the field with its "kickstand arrangement." I took it off and put it back on one time (not counting when the salesman did it with me for training purposes) and haven't removed it since and probably never will. I'm sure that will bother someone too.

Patrick

You still didn't explain how it is, in your own words,

a GREAT placement

. Let's face it Patrick. It is not a great placement. It is a sucky placement with a capital S.

 

[RobertN]

This thread seems to be about Kubota's not having "useful" cutting/steering brakes.

It is clear, the Kubota CUTS have the brakes and HST on the right side, like my B8200. I have used up to a L35, and seem to remember it having brakes on the right side, although it was a GST?

This cutting brake seems to most affect those doing field work, ie plow and disc.

Can someone clarify if larger Kubota's still have the brakes on the right with the other throttle and/or HST control? Does the 40, 50, 60HP Kubota utility and "farm" tractors still use right side brakes?

Do other brands do the same as Kubota?

In regards to smaller Kubota gear tractors, is it still an issue to use the steering brakes on the right, since there is no HST pedal?

 

[RobertN]

Have you driven anything like this before?

I have used CAT and ASV tracked loaders(skidsteer type with rubber tracks) with electric over hydraulics. Two joysticks, one for the loader, just like a typical tractor. Second joystick controlled driving the tractor. For control of throttle, they had a foot pedal and a lever.

Both joysticks had buttons on them to control various attachments, ie 4-in-1 bucket, trencher.

They were very, very nice machines to operate. I could easily see how it would be a nice setup on a "regular" tractor. Surely, there are $$$ signs popping up for something like this.

FWIW, this type of setup has been on "other tractors" for a long time.

My current thoughts on ergonomic design would tend toward a joystick and control by wire with much higher than 12 volt's and use of more complete electric systems. Even electric brakes! And the wiring systems would not include any dangling wire and connectors!!!

 

[beenthere]

Boils down to.... if your tractor has the brakes on the right, along with the HST pedals...you come up with a way to justify them being there. Guess we all try to justify and explain why we have purchased what we have.

I don't plow or disc, but I do
- back drag with the FEL bucket
- carry loads on the 3 ph
- use the tractor in the woods and need to turn short
- use the tractor in conditions where traction may be lost on one wheel

(and many more where there is a time/desire/need for me to have use of the individual brakes)

So, I wouldn't be without the individual brakes on the left. I'm glad I don't have to justify why they were on the right where I couldn't use them when needed.

Interesting explanations in this thread.

 

[Egon]

FWIW, this type of setup has been on "other tractors" for a long time.

Robert; I'm well out of date and don't mind admitting it.

 

[DanD78]

I have a Deere 3320, 32 hp E-hydro. the wheel brakes are on the left and the hydro on the right. I have no idea if the brakes work or not. I have never touched them. I think I have used the parking brake a couple of times when hooking up to the 3 point and always when I haul the tractor.

The intention of individual brakes is to shorten the turning radius if a brake is applied while turning. I have used them a lot on large farm tractors but never had the need on my little one. They probably have their place in operation but not for what I use my tractor for.

Dan

I have read where people use their turning brakes with the cruse on. I tried that last night and it kicks the cruse off. Not sure how the other Deere CUTs work.

Dan

 

[JB4310]

LOL,

This thread reminds me of World War One !

Like trench warfare, no one really advances.

And though I'm not suggesting it end yet, since it hasn't gotten very snippy and it is somewhat entertaining

But when it does end it will be through attrition, just like WW1.
Everyone will be to weak and worn out to go on

In WW1 both sides thought it would be over by X-mas, well we've already been thru the New Years, maybe by next X-mas Eve... We can all get out of the trenches and sing Silent Night together.

JB,

 

[MossRoad]

Curiously, how is your tractor set up? Yours pivots in the center doesn't it? Does it have a split brake option, and is it effective? I have never seen one up close to see.

Our current machine is a Power Trac PT425. I call it a machine, because it is not a tractor in the traditional sense. It is a self propelled tool with permanent FEL arms and a quick attach. All attachments are out front. Buckets, mowers, brush hog, etc... all mount out front. It is hydraulically articulated, meaning it bends in the middle. It has NO BRAKES at all. Only a forward and reverse treadle operated by both feet. It is not good for pulling (plowing dirt is the best example) but excels at things like mowing, brush hogging, FEL work, forks, post hole digging, trenching, etc... It ran circles around my much larger traditional tractor in those types of chores. We bought it because it was the best tool for our tasks. I love it. If I had to do any plowing of dirt, deep soil ripping, etc... I would not have bought it. I would have gone with a traditional tractor.

If you want to see some pictures of it or videos of it in action, click on my little animated signature and that will take you to my website. On the left you will see links to picture and video pages. /There are about 15 or so videos. It gives you a better view of how it bends and oscillates.