Useing sand as build up fill on existing clay..?

[boxygen]

I am in WA state on 6 acres with alot of clay that I wan't to fill most all low areas with as alot of it holds water till late May & then some. front 3 acres is o.k. & is built up allready. Sand is cheap here & everything else is not. top soil being about 400.00 for 10 yeards, fill dirt aka clay as I allready have is 150.00+a dump load. I thought of useing sand & chip & maybe even leaves from local tree services as a dump spot. anything I should know about useing alot of sand as a build up material..? Never done it & is the reason I ask. I have installed a great open ditch system & is quite complex actually that works great & moves ALOT of water out of here allready.
Thanks Joe

Hi Joe,
I would advise you not to fill with sand. If this area holds water without sand it will hold with sand too. At best, all you will be doing is creating an area that appears dry and really isnt. You have to ensure the water has good permanent drainage before you fill the area or fill it with the same material as surrounding soil. Try this experiment. Fill a bucket with sand and then dump a good amount of water in it. Now take a brand new pair of sneakers and step on top of the sand in the bucket. Your foot will hit the bottom of the bucket so fast, you will not know what happened and all the while the sand will appear dry. If you drill a hole in the bottom of the bucket, you will be able to stand on the sand in a very short amount of time. By filling this area and not properly draining it, you will be creating a huge hazzard for your equipment. A guy down the road had this situation in his front yard, he did the exact same thing and now he has a mess 10x worse than when he started.
Andy

 

[Treemonkey1000]

Where abouts in Washington are you? Probably not close to Renton I am guessing. They might get all bent if you have too much fill brought in. I just had 40yards of dirt brought in last Friday and Saturday. So I spent a couple of hours spreading about 20 yards of it at my Dad's place. 20 yards of nice sandy soil with good dirt mixed in. Then another 20 yards was clay rock mix. The guy dumping says he has about 600 yards+ to get rid of in the Renton area. Wood chips will compost and decay creating a cavity later if you just have big area's of chips in one spot. Sinkholes in other words. If you mix the chips with soil then you shouldn't have to worry about sinkholes or spontaneous combustion.

 

[JANDG]

About 40 miles S. of Olympia I am. I here ya on the bringing in to much fill, but my nieghbor directly across the road has done 1000's & 1000's of yards of fill free from the optic company that went thru here a few years ago. & all my other neibors also do the same, so should be good to go as long as no building or perc testing is going to happen which is isn't. I am well tucked on a private road & as long as I don't drain directly to my nieghbors I will be fine. Well at least as long as Obama doesn't get back in office in 2012.
I definately will do mixing of materials experiments & no direct 100% sand fill. Were is Renton in relation to S of Oly..? I do feel for the fellas that have declared wet lands on thier properties....all complete BS to me. What you don't want to do in WA or any state for that matter is mess with creeks or rivers without proper permits, they don't play around with so called "Clean Water Act" violations & this can be from simply duumping small amounts of plain old dirt in a creek can land ya in the big house with 00000000 in fines. WA state is now famouse for such BS ruleings/convictions on normal peoples.
Joe

 

[Obed]

As far as packing is concerned, I would think sand packs great. For example, when installing a foundation, the materials beneath the foundation in order of preference are 1. Bedrock 2. Sand 3. Clay 4. Topsoil. So filling your low spots with sand should work fine. I do agree that you need to make sure these low spots drain well first before filling them with sand or you will be creating an underground pond.

Obed

 

[Just Bill]

Hello
Without trying to start an arguement, let me say that sand doesn't "pack".
It will settle some but will stay porus, allowing water to drain.
Mixing sand with clay or dirt will allow the clay or dirt to drain better.
Putting sand under a foundation cushions and will allow the slab to move slightly and help prevent cracking.
If you put sand in a bucket and then add water, the sand will sink to the bottom and if you step in the bucket you will stay on top of the sand.
Of course I must add that the sand I am used to is heavier than water and doesn"t float.
Go to a beach in Florida or Texas and see how many people are sinking in the sand both in the water and on the beach.

 

[Red55]

Found on a few gardening sites that mixing sand with clay creates concrete. Something about the clay that it has extremely fine particles and binds with the sand. I have lots of clay and was thinking about using some sand for better surface drainage. But was scared off after reading about that. Organic material or what is referred to as "bank run" would probably help with drainage. How's the neighbors soil after adding sand? Good luck -Ed

 

[dodge man]

I have taken a lot of density tests over the years for the company I work for and it all depends on the kind of sand. Fill sand around here is really great fill material, some of the best but it has a lot of clay mixed in. On the other hand, if its pure sand, almost like sugar, it is a terrible fill, it will never pack in.

 

[MarkV]

Joe as I read, it sounds as if you have 3 acres that are your problem areas. You have cut some small ditches that have helped, from what you say. Rather than bring in loads and loads of sand, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to bring a small dozer for a day and regrade for proper drainage?

MarkV

 

[Highbeam]

Unfortunately, you do have wetlands. Any area that stays wet until May and has clay beneath it and has grass growing will qualify as a wetland. Just because your wetlands have not been officially recorded does not mean that you don't have wetlands. So you have a decision to make, either stay away from them as your government and indeed the clean water act requires, or you can make them go away before anybody is able to officially record them as wetlands. Beware that there are aerial photos taken and recorded at least annually at your county's office so your remoteness is of little help in getting away with anything. What your remoteness does for you is helps you move more material before anyone notices until it is too late.

You do have wetlands and they are illegal to fill. It is obvious that you have not asked your county's land use department if you can fill this area. Maybe you don't want the answer.

Renton is way up north near Seattle.

 

[orezok]

I have taken a lot of density tests over the years for the company I work for and it all depends on the kind of sand. Fill sand around here is really great fill material, some of the best but it has a lot of clay mixed in. On the other hand, if its pure sand, almost like sugar, it is a terrible fill, it will never pack in.

Not exactly true.

Sand in a pile or open area will never compact. Sand which is restricted, like in a ditch, will compact great and it is not unusual to get 105% of optimum.

Clay on the other hand will get dense or hard but is very difficult to get above 92 to 93% of optimum.

It all depends upon the application. In a ditch it's the best material to use, in the open forget it.