GC2410 50 hr. service and synthetic fluids

[MikePA]

Well said...however, it's not always that simple...seems that the dealers around here have a "habit" of suddenly extolling the virtues of a new "synthetic" this and a new "synthetic" that which just so happens to have just become available through the dealer network. Some of the older guys get confused as to what is needed and what is a luxury. Seems that the dealers flip-flopping about what is best (just to make more $$$) muddies the water. They like it simple and straightforward.

You have a different kind of dealer than the ones around here. They've never tried to sell me any synthetic product. I walk in and buy what I need and leave or I buy online.

Why does every topic turn into a pis**ng match on here. Too much speculation and not enough fact.

Every topic? Nope. There are more than enough facts, particularly in this forum. Just look at the number of people quoting facts from used oil analysis. It's also a fact that synthetic lubricants are better, e.g., better cold weather flow characteristics. The debate is always whether they are worth it to most compact tractor owners.

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Yeah, unfortunately, around here the dairy and beef farmers are up against it and are folding like a cardboard box, and the tobacco region starts just SE of here...but tractor dealers are still around from the glory days of the '40's and '50's (my dealer has been around since the '30's in one form or another) and are almost to the point of anything to make a buck and survive the "franchise" cut. I guess it's almost understandable. Our geographic area could probably be well served by the 3 larger tractor mfg.'s but I suppose we have around 30 or so in a 75 mile radius. It makes it tough on everybody.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Absolutely! I wasn't disagreeing with you at all...I use some syn.'s as well...wasn't trying to hog your thread, It's just that I have some friends (farmers) who rely on this forum for information and have complained about everyone seeming to advocate the most expensive solutions to the simplest problems. I thought that folks reading should know that what's specified in their tractor's manual is more than adequate if they can't afford the extra expense of some of the more modern fluids. I used to just lurk on here, but decided to start chiming in for the little guy who needs inexpensive advice. Folding money is hard for some people to come up with nowadays. So, it wasn't a dig at you at all...hope you didn't take it that way.

Hey Mustangsallysdad, everything is good . I am on a monthly buget myself, but I try to preplan for everything . This tractor is our new vehicle for the next 6 years of payments . We decided to just keep our 10 years old truck that is still very dependable (I have had the maintenance performed on it, but also pro-active maintenance so we do not have a break down on the highway, knock on wood for goodluck also .

Hey again, MF RED in MT...did you see the oil filter suggestion...I've been using a Fram PH4386 for some years now and they're less than $4.

Yes, I looked up the Fram PH4386, but the filter for my tractor is a Fram PH4776. The only difference that I can see is the filter you are using is about one inch longer then the filter thats on my tractor ? I guess that would not be a problem and might be better because of the larger filter area? Thanks for the info, KC .

 

[MikePA]

I am on a monthly buget myself, but I try to preplan for everything . This tractor is our new vehicle for the next 6 years of payments . We decided to just keep our 10 years old truck that is still very dependable (I have had the maintenance performed on it, but also pro-active maintenance so we do not have a break down on the highway, knock on wood for goodluck also .

For what it's worth, you don't have to justify what fluids and filters you buy to anyone but yourself. For you, and many others, synthetic fluids are a wise way to spend your folding money. Yes, there are a lot of threads in this forum about synthetics. People have strong opinions about them. Although, there are plenty of posts about people looking for alternatives to OEM filters and OEM fluids. Fram and Wix filters and how to translate OEM filter numbers and fluids from Tractor Supply are common topics as is the advice to follow what's in the Operator's Manual. So to say the only advice here is to use the most expensive solution is not correct.

Additionally, this site is focused on compact tractors. While there are forums on here about big ag tractors and other large equipment, most of the discussions are by people who own one compact tractor and they don't use it to make a living, not by farmers who own multiple tractors and grow hundreds of acres of hay or soybeans. Yes, this is a generalization, but by and large this is true. The financial situation as it relates to lubricants are completely different for these 2 groups of people. Most compact tractor owners use quarts of engine oil per year while farmers go through gallons per year resulting in a much bigger outlay of cash to go synthetic for the farmer.

Regardless of the audience for these discussions, people always need to take the advice and apply it to their particular situation. What makes sense (or what doesn't make a big financial difference) for one person may not apply to someone else. Also remember, the solution that costs the least to buy isn't always the right one either.

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Mike, sorry if I touched a nerve...but, a lot of what I am seeing with these "homeowner compact tractor owners" is a contest to see who can brag about themselves and knowledge base or "Hey...I spent more money than you on my tractor that I use to run down the driveway to get the morning paper". Some of you guys are like a bantam rooster guarding these threads like it's their hens. Quit disagreeing with everyone just because their opinion doesn't seem to mesh with yours. These forums should allow for fair and balanced opinions and not everyone is going to agree. State your case, ask your question, whatever, and allow people to respond with their experience or knowledge. I joined because I see a lot of people asking a simple, straightforward question and then getting bombarded with responses that seem to suggest that the only solution is a major outlaying of cash. I'm not knocking spending money...I spend my fair share...but what is the harm in providing an inexpensive, sometimes DIY solution. I have over 20 years of engineering background in an industrial machine industry and use my GC2310 TLB to maintain 25 acres...I bought it new in the winter of 2004-05 and it has over 1700 hours on the meter with no one else's butt in the seat but mine. I think I have the experience and knowledge base to expound on a considerable amount of issues that are discussed on here. I don't play "Know it all" and I prefer to simplify complicated problems into layman's terms so that the average user can understand them. I think (unlike most engineers I've worked with) that simpler is often better. The fewer moving parts and tools required to accomplish the task (in my opinion) is the most efficient and effective way to accomplish most tasks. If you "Roosters" don't want me or my knowledge base and experience on here I'll be more than happy to keep to myself...the Spring is just around the corner and I've got plenty to do with my "one size too small for my acreage" tractor.

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Hi again Red...about the filter...I took the AGCO filter into the auto parts store and spent a couple of hours going through them to find a comparable, if not better, filter. You are right...it is about an inch longer, but that's a good thing and it fits within the lower cowling like it was meant to be. Unfortunately, I won't be able to share may experiences (good or bad) with you anymore because , as you can see, Mike has decided that this is his hen house and there's no room for a rookie rooster. Apparently new member means green horn or just got out of high school or something. There must be some perceived "more posts equals more real world experience" or something like that. I thought it meant that they can type faster than me? Oh well, good luck with your new tractor, you seem to take pride in it and I'm sure you'll maintain it well.

 

[MikePA]

Mike, sorry if I touched a nerve...

You did not touch a nerve. I am simply presenting facts about what gets discussed in this forum. I don't pretend to know people's motives. Simply presenting the 'inexpensive alternative' would have sufficed, there was no need to attribute motives. For someone who claims to be interested in only facts it is interesting you accuse people who start threads about synthetic/expensive fluids of being in "...a contest to see who can brag about themselves and knowledge base or "Hey...I spent more money than you on my tractor that I use to run down the driveway to get the morning paper". Some of you guys are like a bantam rooster guarding these threads like it's their hens. ".

Nor is this my forum anymore than it is yours. It's also unfortunate that you call people names when they disagree with you.

 

[mustangsallysdad]

If you think "Bantam rooster" is name calling you should hear what I really think...but, I'll keep that (along with everything else) to myself. Where's the link to "unregister"???

 

[MF RED in MT]

Hey MikePA, thanks for the kind words, and I agree with you . KC

Hey Mustangsallysdad, I wish you could channel some of your energy to a new thread regarding basic tractor fluids for the GC2300 . I am not telling you to do this, but I think you have a lot of knowledge to share regarding low budget maintenance and I for one would read them? That is a lot of hours you have on your tractor, how about sharing with us in this thread or another about any problems you have discovered with your tractor. I also believe that an oil filter that cost $4 vs. an OEM oil filter that cost $11 is good information to be sharing . KC

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Hey MikePA, thanks for the kind words, and I agree with you . KC

Hey Mustangsallysdad, I wish you could channel some of your energy to a new thread regarding basic tractor fluids for the GC2300 . I am not telling you to do this, but I think you have a lot of knowledge to share regarding low budget maintenance and I for one would read them? That is a lot of hours you have on your tractor, how about sharing with us in this thread or another about any problems you have discovered with your tractor. I also believe that an oil filter that cost $4 vs. an OEM oil filter that cost $11 is good information to be sharing . KC

I don't have any energy left to channel...I used it all on a 25" Black Oak with a 20' rootball that decided my ridge fence would be a nice, soft place to land. Over 40" of snowfall since Dec. 22 has left the ground saturated...and then the winds came!!! Crash, crackle, pop!

 

[MF RED in MT]

I don't have any energy left to channel...I used it all on a 25" Black Oak with a 20' rootball that decided my ridge fence would be a nice, soft place to land. Over 40" of snowfall since Dec. 22 has left the ground saturated...and then the winds came!!! Crash, crackle, pop!

That sounds like a bad day, but in a few seasons, that oak will burn nice :thumbsup:. I think I read a post about the 2310 allowing gear oil for the front axle, do you know about that ? My 2410 does not list gear oil as an option, but after my warranty is up, the gear oil seems to me a better choice . KC

 

[ray66v]

do you know about that ? My 2410 does not list gear oil as an option

Are you sure about that?????

I can't imagine it is a different axle?????????

If you look hard enough, I bet you will find it. They only mention it in one place in my book, the rest of the places, they give you the impression that Permatran is the only option.

Check for the page that list the recommended products and capacities, look for:

Lubrication & Periodic Maintenance
Specifications & Capacities

Front Axle (4WD) Only........Permatran -or- SAE 80 GL-4

 

[mustangsallysdad]

Hey again Red...it is possible that MF has changed the specifications for the front axle on your tractor...it's much newer than mine. But, I would bet that the spec.'s are the only thing changed...in other words, the axle, gears, seals, etc. are probably the same as mine. For a 2004 GC2310 TLB (GC2300 series) from the book..."Front Axle (4-WD Only) Recommended Change Lubricant...MF Permatran 3 or SAE 80 GL-4. Now for my opinion and personal experience: Hydraulic fluid IS NOT a suitable stand alone lubricant, so if you go with the gear oil (whatever viscosity you decide to use), be sure to get an EP (extreme pressure) for better film strength and particulate suspension (overall better performance). I've personally gone to an 85w-90 EP, but my tractor use remains consistent year round and it is worked on a daily basis. You can probably use a straight weight lube just as well. Don't tell anyone (this is going to get the boys going), but Marine SAE 85W-90EP Marine Lower Unit Gear Lube is what I would suggest you use. It is a GL-5 with anti-wear additives and corrosion inhibitors. And guess what? It's available "store branded" so it's cheap! Hope that helps.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Are you sure about that?????

I can't imagine it is a different axle?????????

If you look hard enough, I bet you will find it. They only mention it in one place in my book, the rest of the places, they give you the impression that Permatran is the only option.

Check for the page that list the recommended products and capacities, look for:

Lubrication & Periodic Maintenance
Specifications & Capacities

Front Axle (4WD) Only........Permatran -or- SAE 80 GL-4

My owners manual was printed in February 2008 and the ONLY Front Axle recommended lubricant is "MF Permatran lll" in the Lubrication and Maintenance section. Also in the Lubrication and Fill Locations chart in that same section, the "type" is listed as hydraulic oil, the same for the Rear Housing and also the Four-Wheel Drive Axle.
In the same section only 2 pages past the information listed above, under Front Axle Oil and sub-paragraph of Change Front Axle Oil, the last sentence reads "Fill with fresh gear oil through the oil fill hole (3)."
This is the only reference to gear oil for the front axle, but the manual does not list any specific gear oil :licking:. KC

Mustangsallysdad, thanks for the gear oil info, I guess that MF has decided if hydraulic oil is good enough for the transmission, hydraulic system, and the rear diffferential housing, then it must be good enough for the front axle . KC

 

[mustangsallysdad]

My owners manual was printed in February 2008 and the ONLY Front Axle recommended lubricant is "MF Permatran lll" in the Lubrication and Maintenance section. Also in the Lubrication and Fill Locations chart in that same section, the "type" is listed as hydraulic oil, the same for the Rear Housing and also the Four-Wheel Drive Axle.
In the same section only 2 pages past the information listed above, under Front Axle Oil and sub-paragraph of Change Front Axle Oil, the last sentence reads "Fill with fresh gear oil through the oil fill hole (3)."
This is the only reference to gear oil for the front axle, but the manual does not list any specific gear oil :licking:. KC

Mustangsallysdad, thanks for the gear oil info, I guess that MF has decided if hydraulic oil is good enough for the transmission, hydraulic system, and the rear diffferential housing, then it must be good enough for the front axle . KC

I would use what the manual recommends while under warranty...but when that expires, I would switch to what I suggested so fast it would make your head spin! You won't have to worry about friction modifiers or anything with the GL-5...it is already EP rated and is perfect for non-hypoid gears...your axle has all 90 degree bevel gears. Some of the older GL-5's weren't good for hypoids or synchro's (transmissions) because of the "yellow" metals like brass, bronze and copper. I don't think that that is a concern anymore, however. The front axle pivot bushings "may be" bronze, but I don't know for sure as I've never had mine apart...we could get into all kinds of scenarios like axial force, shear force, etc. But, bottom line is I've used it in mine now for around 4 years and haven't had any problems...seems to perform quite well. My manual recommends a change interval of 600 hours (after the initial 50) if using Permatran 3 or GL-4. If I were still using it I would probably change it everytime I changed the crankcase oil. I just don't have much faith in it. I always strain my change fluids and have yet to find any particulate matter in the GL-5...always clean as a whistle.

 

[ray66v]

Not listing gear lube specifically, may have been just an oversight by the manual writers, or simply lost in the sometimes bad translation. There should not be any reason to disallow it in, this application.

According to my engineer, there really is not a big difference between a hydraulic oil, and a gear oil. It's all oil. There are additives that help some perform better, in some applications.

EP gear lube will withstand higher pressures than standard gear oil, or hydraulic oil can. And pinion gears tend to create high pressures.

EP gear lube is an extra margin of protection that is probably not necessary. But, when you consider that even if you buy the best synthetic EP lube, it is only about $4 a quart, you really don't have much to lose.

 

[mustangsallysdad]

HUH??? According to this engineer there is a HUGE difference between hydraulic oil and gear oil. Sure oil is oil...just like fruit is fruit...but I know the difference between an apple and an orange. These are formulated for entirely different applications. GL-5 has additives for extreme pressure, anti-wear, film strength, anti-corrosion, and the list goes on. Never was hydraulic fluid intended to be a stand alone lubricant...it has lubrication properties which enable it to be used in applications where that might be necessary and it provides a medium to help dissapate and carry heat, but in its basic form is merely a working medium. It could be replaced with an emulsion of salad oil and water. Of course then we would have to argue what's best...canola or corn oil...safflour or olive...wait, I know...soybean! Soybean would be the vegetarian version of synthetic! All right lets get serious again. Ray, what do you have in your front axle right now? How many hours?

 

[ray66v]

HUH??? According to this engineer there is a HUGE difference between hydraulic oil and gear oil.

The point WAS, in this application there isn't a HUGE difference. And according to the people who designed, and built it, they agree.

Sure oil is oil...just like fruit is fruit...but I know the difference between an apple and an orange. These are formulated for entirely different applications. GL-5 has additives for extreme pressure, anti-wear, film strength, anti-corrosion, and the list goes on.

Do you know? Hydraulic oil also has additives for; anti-wear, anti-corrosion, film strength, thermal and oxidative stability, and the list goes on.

Never was hydraulic fluid intended to be a stand alone lubricant...it has lubrication properties which enable it to be used in applications where that might be necessary and it provides a medium to help dissapate and carry heat, but in its basic form is merely a working medium.

Yes, but, it sure does a great job lubricating all the parts in our automatic transmissions, and in our tractor hydro transmissions.

I really don't want to have to debate you every time I post something. And I assume you don't either. So what do you say we give that a rest?

 

[mustangsallysdad]

The point WAS, in this application there isn't a HUGE difference. And according to the people who designed, and built it, they agree.



Do you know? Hydraulic oil also has additives for; anti-wear, anti-corrosion, film strength, thermal and oxidative stability, and the list goes on.



Yes, but, it sure does a great job lubricating all the parts in our automatic transmissions, and in our tractor hydro transmissions.

I really don't want to have to debate you every time I post something. And I assume you don't either. So what do you say we give that a rest?

I am aware of most fluid properties...including hydraulic fluids (encompasses a broad spectrum)...point is, hydraulic fluid as a stand alone lubricant is a compromise at best. Thermo and hydrodynamic properties have been a large part of my educational and practical background and generalizing (you quoted YOUR engineer "it's all oil") is, in my opinion, bad information. I prefer education and self-experience to second or third hand information. Someone new and inexperienced could read your respose and lend credibility to it simply because you quoted an engineer...that could lead them to using a product that isn't defined for their application and damage (even worse, non-warrantable) could be the end result. I wasn't debating, just counteracting what I consider bad or misinformation for the sake of the subject. I'm sure if you calmly reflect on what was posted you will see my point. A new owner could read your response and deduce that gear lubricant (who knows what viscosity or properties) is good enough for their hydrostatic transmission. You and I both know what the result of that could be. Agreed?

 

[ray66v]

A new owner could read your response and deduce that gear lubricant (who knows what viscosity or properties) is good enough for their hydrostatic transmission. You and I both know what the result of that could be. Agreed?

That is without question the weakest argument I have ever seen in my life.

After spending thousands on a tractor, people are so particular about the fluids they use until their warranty expires, the majority are afraid to even use anything except the exact products that were made, and used, by the manufacturer, even though lots of other products, that meet, or exceed, the specifications in the owners manual are available. In many cases, even after the warranty expires, they are not willing to use a different product.

As a matter of fact, it is very common to see new owners who are so concerned about the service being done properly, the don't even want to change the oil themselves.

In the event that someone could be feebleminded enough to purchase, and or, try to dump, any quantity of gear oil in their hydo, because they thought that they read it was okay, in my post. Keep in mind, they would also have to be somehow astute enough to know where the filler is.

But, I appreciate you clearing that up. :thumbsup: