Front-End Loader Self Leveling Loaders

[MJPetersen]

Mike, how is the range of motion altered with a hydraulic self leveling system? I know that range of motion can be a problem with some of the mechanical types, but I don't see how it affects a hydraulic type.

Brian,
I probably am showing my ignorance in the matter, in which case I am glad that you called me on it. The limitation of range idea is based on my understanding of how the Alo loader worked in a brochure that I have somewhere. But now that I think about it, I wonder if I were wrong about that. I will have to look for that brochure and see for myself again.

Mike

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Mike, I know for sure that the hydraulic self leveling loader on my 7520 Mahindra has the same range and motion as the loader that does not have the self leveling option. Other than that and I am speculating about others. But like I said, I believe that the mechanical self leveling loaders do indeed have some motion limitations at different heights. (I believe at the top & bottom locations)

 

[Abe460]

I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. Someone said something about a lock on the bottom of the FEL joystick. I have a Lock lever under mine and haven't the slightest clue what it's for. It's a MF 1060 FEL is self leveling what that is?
My Massey is down at the moment (lift pump) and will have to work on it after the rain tomorrow (Sat. I guess) just to be able to test this theory.

 

[JB4310]

I was shocked to find my CUT didn't have self leveling loader after I took delivery. I just assumed after using skidsteers and BHs that all loaders were SL, I've gotten pretty proficient at manually leveling as I'm lifting. But in my opinion it should be standard, just for safety's sake. An inexperienced operator could easily get themselves hurt simply by fully raising a curled bucket full of a material/load that could roll out the back onto them.

That lack of SL really comes into play with fork use

JB.

 

[BayouMan]

I put a loader on my tractor about a year ago. Love having that attachment, but I have run into numerous situations where it is PITA making curl adjustments while lifting or lowering.

I bought the loader used, since my tractor is a 1978 model and I got it for a good price. My next tractor loader combo will have self leveling feature that can be turned on or off.

Mike

 

[eepete]

Stupid question time: On my B21 TLB, there is mechanical linkage that keeps the loader bucket from dumping stuff back on you. So it's not self leveling in as much as you learn to manually keep it level as you raise it but it does keep the bucket from going past level (if it was say full of dirt or sand) and dumping the bucket contents back on you.

What's the right name for that? :confused2:

Pete

 

[JB4310]

Stupid question time: On my B21 TLB, there is mechanical linkage that keeps the loader bucket from dumping stuff back on you. So it's not self leveling in as much as you learn to manually keep it level as you raise it but it does keep the bucket from going past level (if it was say full of dirt or sand) and dumping the bucket contents back on you.

What's the right name for that? :confused2:

Pete

Does it actually stop the bucket or does it just show you the position of the bucket.

If it just shows you the position and allows you do adjust to keep the bucket level. That's called the bucket level indicator.

The dif brands have their own way of doing it. My JD has a sliding bar with a bend in it, when the bend hits the mark it's level. It moves the bar in a dif direction making it very easy to pick up visually, some are as simple as a mark painted on a rod.

JB.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Does it actually stop the bucket or does it just show you the position of the bucket.

If it just shows you the position and allows you do adjust to keep the bucket level. That's called the bucket level indicator.

The dif brands have their own way of doing it. My JD has a sliding bar with a bend in it, when the bend hits the mark it's level. It moves the bar in a dif direction making it very easy to pick up visually, some are as simple as a mark painted on a rod.

JB.

The bucket level indicators that I have seen usually are set to have the bucket level at ground level. If you want to keep your bucket level as you raise it, you best not keep it at the spot indicated on the level indicator.

 

[eepete]

There is mechanical linkage from the bucket back to the SCV joystick such that as you lift the bucket, it will not tilt back such that it could dump the load on you. It will push the joystick just like you would do as it raises. So it's not level in the sense of the indicator (it has one of those on the bucket), but level in the sense that if the bucket was full of water, it would not spill any out the back side of the bucket as you raised the bucket.

Hoping someone with B21 or similar Kubota experience knows what I'm talking about.... The self leveler as per the JD CX series makes sense, this is not the same concept.

Pete

 

[JB4310]

The bucket level indicators that I have seen usually are set to have the bucket level at ground level. If you want to keep your bucket level as you raise it, you best not keep it at the spot indicated on the level indicator.

Yup, Your right it's such second nature to me, I do use the indicator all the time to level bucket to the ground surface, but just learned over time how to judge rough level when raised or keep from dumping anything over the back. Bucket level indicator definitely doesn't work when loader is raised.

But you just made me think of a redneck invention. How about a simple gravity pendulum type bucket level indicator that would work through out the full range of the loader's lift. Like the same concept as the tilt meters. I think that has been discussed before.

There is mechanical linkage from the bucket back to the SCV joystick suck that as you lift the bucket, it will not tilt back such that it could dump the load on you. It will push the joystick just like you would do as it raises. So it's not level in the sense of the indicator (it has one of those on the bucket), but level in the sense that if the bucket was full of water, it would not spill any out the back side of the bucket as you raised the bucket.

Hoping someone with B21 or similar Kubota experience knows what I'm talking about.... The self leveler as per the JD CX series makes sense, this is not the same concept.

Pete

Wow that's interesting, never seen or heard of that!

JB.

 

[bill1]

eepete, I have a B21. What you're talking about is the self-leveling function. What it does is to regulate by mechicanical linkage "the bucket rollback angle in proportion to the boom lifting height so that this function plays a part of spill guard." And also that the regulated bucket angle can be changed, (under the adjustment section). As you say, it makes the bucket level itself as you lift up.

I hardly notice when operating the loader that the linkage moves the curl function, (am I that good on a loader?, lol), but have had the linkage "override" me when not paying attention or trying to do something with an unlevel bucket for whatever reason...

 

[eepete]

Tnx bill. So this _is_ a self leveling function, but the "factory default" of level is not bottom of bucket level with/parallel to the ground, but, a "spill guard". Sorry this is a RTFM issue, I'll look at mine and try to find it. Don't recall it, but it's been a decade since I've read it other than some maintenance issues. I'll probably leave it where it is, since I use the forks 5% of the time and am moving material 80% of the time (the rest of the time it's a carry all).

BTW, back in the 70's I ran a bobcat for a day and dumped a load of gravel back on me when I lost focus for a second, so when I figured out this feature on the B21 after I got it I was happy with it.

I hate it when the problem is a geek that doesn't read the manual .

Pete

 

[jenkinsph]

Pete,
If you have a rod that goes back to the joystick then you have hydraulic leveling. Most mechanincal self leveling setups function with some form of parallel bars making a parallelagram. My 110 leveling system works as your does.

 

[Renze]

There are actually three types of self levelling:

-Mechanical self levelling
-passive self levelling (Another hydraulic cylinder under the lift cylinder, communicates with the tip cylinder to self level
- active self levelling (a valve is actuated whilst lifting, letting pump pressure sucked into the tip cylinders)

hydraulic self levelling by means of a valve, wastes energy: To lift it you need a high working pressure: relieving the oil into the tip cylinders is allmost vacuuming it in:
The difference in pressure is power you waste, as a part of the full pressure pump flow is drawn through a restricted valve, which turns the pressure into waste heat.
The loss is comparable to non self levelling loaders.

Both hydraulic SL by means of a reaction cylinder, and MSL, roughly increase the lift force by 20% as the center of gravity of the load, is lowered when you tip the bucket forward when correcting: When self levelling does that on the go, you're only putting in as much labour as required: Not first lifting it up, while releasing this kinetic energy by tipping out the bucket to keep it level.
So, 20% more lifting force with general attachments (or no energy loss) and this gets even more when working with e.g, a boom pole: Without it, you have extended the force x arm by two, if you hung a 3 meter boom pole on a 3 meter loader arm.
With self levelling, the hook moves parallel to the quick attach hinge point on the loader boom: So with the same lifting cylinders you'd be lifting over the same 3.5 meter height, no matter how long the boom pole would be.

Just one disadvantage of self levelling: As it uses geometry to do this trick, it only works 100% in the bucket or implement position it is laid out for: Tip your bucket fully out, lift it and you'll see that in a 90 degree rotated bucket position, the bucket waves all over during lifting or lowering.

JD had a flip-over geometry arm, (in the turnover triangle in the bend of the boom) so you could change the parallel arm geometry for A. a horizontal pallet fork and B. a full dirt bucket, tilted 45ｰ back so it doesnt spill when lifting.

Industrial loaders dont need this as they have flat booms, so the cylinder angles in fully tipped back quick attach position are good enough to hold that pallet fork, in the same position as a fully tilted back position.

On tractor front loaders with curved booms, the cylinder stands more upright, decreasing the hold force when the bucket is rolled back: thats why loader manufacturers make pallet fork frames with a QA angle which is putting the tip cylinders out of their dead angle, and make the parallel position accordingly...

 

[JB4310]

So that linkage to valve lever would only be possible with the loader mast mounted valves, like found on some of the Kubs ?

JB.

 

[Tommyboy]

Well Said Renze...You Know your stuff!

 

[chandollar]

I was watching this thread to see if anyone has the bucket cylinder links reversed like the big loaders to get way more travel such as when lowered down can bring bucket cutting edge back almost to front axle so you can back pull or back dig. If ya look at my thread with the stuff I made for the last 50 some years, ya can see the mechanism I conjured up on the loader after dumping way too many loads of logs/firewood. Now want to be able to curl all the way over forward and curl back to loader frame. Basically make all the points equal from the main boom hookup to the bucket. Tractor used for firewood lifting/stacking, but I have a 5 foot (actually reinforced oil tank) bucket for cleaning snow from driveway which I have to manually curl when raising to keep full load of snow from spilling if ya bounce it too much. As you can see I have made many changes with design through the years. This project started in about 1970 on a 10 horse simplicity and progressed to a 18 horse sunstar with length modifications. I also have a 20hp but that becomes dangerous with the "posilock" rear axle as ya can get in trouble real fast with tip over. The 20's only had ps and hi/lo range 18 and below did not. PS would be nice on FEL but again trouble cause ya can turn way too fast. I use the 20hp with modified V plow just like the big kids all left v straight all right and inverted v to push snow straight ahead.

 

[diggerd]

The only reason I bought my tractor with the self leveling loader was the added lift capacity. At first I didn't like it. The dump angle of the bucket when 4' or so off the ground is kind of a pain. To get the angle I have to raise the loader up about 3/4 of the way to get full dump of the bucket. I was nervous when I'd pile up manure that a rock would roll back into the tractor. Now I just back up quickly lol