Geo-Thermal heat pumps

[whistlepig]

We have a Water Furnace geothermal ground loop system that was installed in 1999. The only trouble we have had with it was the blower motor failing in 2008. It was covered in our ten year warranty. Motor and labor was free. We did have to pay for a service call.

 

[doxford jim]

How many sq ft are you heating and cooling?

2000ft top floor and around 1600sq ft in the basement. The double garage has one air outlet that keeps it around 45F on a cold (-35C/-30F) day.

We have found keeping the temperature of 70 F at the thermastat in the upstairs hallway, make for a comfortable temp. Of course we can always go up or down, but 70F seems to be a happy medium. Individual room vary a few degrees in temperature and unless they are being used, no point in adding extra heat( two spare beds are left at 66F with one of two air registers closed).

Cheers

Jim

 

[doxford jim]

We have a Water Furnace geothermal ground loop system that was installed in 1999. The only trouble we have had with it was the blower motor failing in 2008. It was covered in our ten year warranty. Motor and labor was free. We did have to pay for a service call.

I strongly suspect that 12 years would be a good average age before things go wrong. I understand that the previous owner only had problems with the small circulating pumps for the thermal fluid (antifreeze?). They started to leak and were change under warranty. Of course that had expired by a couple of years when I bought this place However I think even with the repairs costs I have incurred, there is still a lot of savings to be had with this type of system. Biggest cons is the regular, steady power supply needed.

Cheers

Jim

 

[RalphVa]

The estimate to replace our 5 ton unit with a geothermal one was $26,000. Even with the (current) $2,000 federal tax rebate, this wouldn't pay out. Our electric bill for this February was 1,000 kwh lower than mid Jan to mid Feb a year ago. Reasons: 1) replaced the 5 ton unit with a 16.8 SEER (advertised as 19 SEER) 4 ton unit, 2) got a replacement Air Tap on my hot water heater, 3) quit using the under floor electric heat in the bath room. The new heat pump had been saving 200 kwh/month, which is what I'd calculated it would. The original Air Tap unit ran out of freon; so, it wasn't saving its calculated 100 kwh/month. Think the new unit (replaced free of charge) is working fine now. The underfloor heat is a bummer. All it does is warm your feet. Can do that much cheaper by wearing house shoes.

Ralph

 

[doxford jim]

I strongly suspect that 12 years would be a good average age before things go wrong. I understand that the previous owner only had problems with the small circulating pumps for the thermal fluid (antifreeze?). They started to leak and were change under warranty. Of course that had expired by a couple of years when I bought this place However I think even with the repairs costs I have incurred, there is still a lot of savings to be had with this type of system. Biggest cons is the regular, steady power supply needed.

Cheers

Jim

Thought I should try and determine the actual install date for the un it and the best I could come up with is 1995, so that would make it around 15 years old and not 13 yrs old. That would explain the repairs I have done in the last three years. Very annoying and inconveniet as they all happened during the winter too The warranty would have expired just when I purchased the place :drool::drool: The repairs started a couple of years after I moved in

Getting old sux don't it - can't trust my memory like I used to be able to do.

Cheers

Jim

 

[bucmeister]

At $1.76 a gallon for propane thats = 2640 a heating season for 1500 gallons. Just to heat the house not water also. Which would be minimal. There is no grantee that propane will stay at $1.76.

Wow, I would love to be buying propane at this time of the year for that kind of money, we are paying $2.75+ per gallon down here in Mississippi. I just got 110 gallons recently and the bill was just over $300 which is totally ridiculous, but we only have one supplier so no competition. However, when we had three companies they all still charged what the market would bear just like the gas stations prices all match.

 

[doxford jim]

Wow, I would love to be buying propane at this time of the year for that kind of money, we are paying $2.75+ per gallon down here in Mississippi. I just got 110 gallons recently and the bill was just over $300 which is totally ridiculous, but we only have one supplier so no competition. However, when we had three companies they all still charged what the market would bear just like the gas stations prices all match.

Hi Buc.

In Canada where I live the propane is sold by the lb (and we are supposed to be metric ) So;

100lbs = $85 Canadian
1 lb = $0.85 Canadian
1 US gallon = 4.24 lbs
therefore 1 US gallon = 4.24 x 0.85 = $3.6 Canadian or $3.24 US

A bill for 110 US gallons here would be 110 x 3.24 = $356.4 US

Seems you are getting a much better deal than we are in BC - I guess there is always someone worse off eh !

Cheers

Jim

 

[whistlepig]

Thought I should try and determine the actual install date for the un it and the best I could come up with is 1995, so that would make it around 15 years old and not 13 yrs old. That would explain the repairs I have done in the last three years. Very annoying and inconveniet as they all happened during the winter too The warranty would have expired just when I purchased the place :drool::drool: The repairs started a couple of years after I moved in

Getting old sux don't it - can't trust my memory like I used to be able to do.

Cheers

Jim

This is good information for me on what to look out for in the future for repairs. The previous owner installed the Water Furnace system when he built this house in 1999. He said it cost $14,000 in 1999. This is our fourth winter here. I didn't even know what geothermal was until we moved here. I am very impressed with it. It turned out to be the best feature of this house. It's quiet, clean, and (so far) almost maintenance free. I think it may be the best heating/cooling system available at present. The major considerations would be the initial cost. I did some research and the system we have that was installed in 1999 for $14,000 would cost $22,000 these days. And, as you mentioned, the power required in an emergency. We have a portable generator and a pellet stove for back up heat. No way that a pellet stove is going to work in your -45F temps. Our heating/cooling averages $65.00 a month. How in the world can you guys stand -45F? Scares me to think about it. The repair costs you describe do not seem to be that much more than the old fuel oil system we had where we lived before.

 

[irvingj]

I know I might be pushing my luck, but one of the reasons I haven't run right out to purchase a replacement (higher efficiency) unit for mine is that it's still working after all these years... (Paul Simon??)

I did, however, have to replace all three checkvalves, both expansion valves, repair a few leaks, and the fan motor finally quit 2 years ago... I did all that myself, but had my former HVAC mentor --who's still in the business-- come out to replace one of the two reversing valves, which had been sticking. Most of the repairs were done early on; all the refrigeration parts I replaced would be what I'd consider somewhat inferior in quality --"cheap" ones. Replaced all with Sporlan parts, no problems since. I periodically have to clean out the impeller on one of the 3 Grundfos pumps (DHW), but they're all still cranking, too.

These things are mechanically complex, but over its lifespan I figure it's saved me a bundle. Perhaps a total of $400 in repairs over 24 years. :thumbsup:

 

[eepete]

You're having better luck than I do with my 2.5 year old Water Furnace units. One had a freon leak ($350 to fill), then went flat again so changed out the evaporator ($250, HVAC guy says "they don't pay enough to me for my labor under the warranty"), now another unit just got freon ($350 again) and I suspect in about 6 months will need a new evaporator. They couldn't find a leak, so this is a dance they do (with my paying for the expensive fiddlers) so they can put in new coils.

Someone in management is busy cost reducing the product's coils. When this is done I'll be at $1200 in repairs on units not even 3 years old. Keep this in mind when you're told about the "fabulous 10 year warranty" on the units.

They work well, the installation is good, it's just a bit much $$s .

Pete