HST or not?

[jj4osu]

I am planning an upgrade/upsize from my current tractor situation.

Primary uses will be:
1) Grooming riding arena
2) Hauling round bales to pasture - would idealy carry 2 per load, and be able to use FEL to stack 1 row high...bales ~1000 lbs, Use ~100 per year.
3) General light duty work (hauling manure, branches, etc in loader)
4) Mowing/spraying/harrowing pastures.

I currently use a JD 2210 for all the light work, including grooming the arena, and an onld AC 170xt for hauling the hay and any other heavy work.

Looking at getting something that will fit in ALL the work categories.

Have narrowed my search down to something along the lines of:

Mahindra 5035 gear
JD 4320 HST or gear
JD 5045/5055E gear
NH 4055 gear
NH 3050 CVT (diff than HST??) or gear
Kubota L4740 HST only
Kubota L5040 gear
LS 4010 gear

I can get any of these locally, not much difference in the dealers. I really don't like the LS too much, and don't like the operation of the Kubota HST (just doesn't work for me). So can pretty much cross those off.

Leaves me with either a JD or NH if HST is important. If not, probably my top choice will be the Mahindra. Open to any other suggestions for make/model that might work, or if any on this list are definitely better or ill suited for my needs.

Could conceivably go a bit bigger to a 60-65hp in the same footprint of a few of these, but probably don't have a true "need" for that.

What I really need to know is if the HST type tranny is going to be a big deal for me or not. I know the HST on my little 2210 is certainly handy, but it adds quite a few $$ and limits the selection to only a couple models in my size range. I know the shifting on the old AC 170 sucks, but haven't had the chance to operate any of the newer transmission types (sync shuttle, whatever) to know if they are as bad. If they always come to a stop to shift from 2nd to 3rd, maybe so, but having 3 ranges instead of just 2 for each gear would be a marked improvement over the old tractor. Not too worried about shifting from forward to reverse, although HST is sure nice there, it isn't a necessity. But I've had some tell me if hauling bales, the HST is needed, but don't say why.... So, do I need it or not??

Thanks,
JJ

 

[wvpolekat]

For #1 and #3, the HST would be an advantage. For #2 and #4, it would be a draw or go to gear.

HST shines when you have a need to change speed or direction often, loader and close work mainly.

From a reliability standpoint, it's a draw.

Having owned both, price being equal, I would go HST in a heartbeat for any job.

The other big advantage to HST is that your ground speed and PTO speed are uncoupled.

 

[Johndeere3720]

So it sounds like you like the Deeres, New Hollands, and Mahindras most. The HST is more $$$ and the gear puts out more torqe and pulling power. Basically gear transfer's a lot more power to the ground than a hst. If you plan for a lot of forward and reverse, get a power reverse gear tractor. This means that you can shift up and down and reverse without using the clutch. This makes it easier that always using your clutch to get into a higher or lower gear. HST is nice but in your case, i recommend a Gear with Power Reverser.

 

[beenthere]

...............So, do I need it or not??

Thanks,
JJ

Do yourself a favor and get the HST. Hands down better than gear. And HST leaves a hand free from shifting to do whatever. Wave, scratch, swat bugs, wipe brow, button or unbutton shirt, and the list goes on and on.

 

[JCB]

JJ,

You already own a hydro, so it's surprising that you'd be willing to go back when all your work seems more maintenance than field work.

You'll probably just have to test drive a newer one and see for yourself. I've driven quite a few different type of gear shifts collar, tunnel, syncro shift (whatever they feel like calling them from one year to the next) and like beenthere said, no matter what they are called each one of them will tie up a hand (or two) at times.

Moving and stacking bales with a gear tractor stinks. Round bales are awkwardly to begin with. They roll easily and are basically not that easy to control on a spear. You'll need three hands stacking round bales. If you're doing it in a confined area...all the better. Standing on a clutch while near things you don't want to run into is always fun too!

 

[ModMech]

For field work, Gear only IMO. You just need a bigger, more powerful tractor with HST to get the same drawbar power as a smaller GST.

For mowing and loader work, HST is best by far but it was done for 60 years with GSTs, so obviously it can be done and well with them. Again, IMO.

I too like the market the Mahindra tractors fill, nice heavy tractors with good power and they are well built.

If you have a field to work (hay etc) then a 3 range HST would be required. Yes, the PTO speed is independant of ground speed, BUT when you disengage the clutch (PTO), you STOP. That's not a good thing on hills and the impliment can still push you with the clutch depressed unless you slip the PTO into neutral. That's not something everyone knows about and fewer are comfortable with. An over running clutch solves this, but adds parts to buy that can break.

 

[magicheater]

I have a gear tractor w/hydro shuttle, had it for 10 years. Last year I got a smaller tractor with HST and can really notice the improvement in the ability to apply technique when using the loader. Cruise control is achieved differently on each. I would really have to think hard about what I would want if I ever changed tractors.

 

[beenthere]

..............
If you have a field to work (hay etc) then a 3 range HST would be required. Yes, the PTO speed is independant of ground speed, BUT when you disengage the clutch (PTO), you STOP. That's not a good thing on hills and the impliment can still push you with the clutch depressed unless you slip the PTO into neutral. That's not something everyone knows about and fewer are comfortable with. An over running clutch solves this, but adds parts to buy that can break.

I'm not quite grasping what you mean here. On my HST, I disengage the PTO and the tractor doesn't stop. On mine, the PTO will coast if I shift it to neutral, or will brake to a stop if I shift it to stop. Not sure what being on hills has to do with it.
Not saying it doesn't, but don't follow the reasoning here, or the indicated results.

 

[TripleR]

Can't add to the wisdom given, just agree that you need to spend some time on all of them to determine which is best for you. I prefer the HST, but also use geared units.

 

[ModMech]

If you are engaged in work, and you depress the clutch pedal, all engine power to the drive wheels is interupted. You might say you "coast", but my experience with it is closer to stopping, just as if you placed the direction pedal in the "N" position.

 

[Soundguy]

Having owned both, price being equal, I would go HST in a heartbeat for any job..

I can't say that I've ever seen 2 similar tractors.. otherswise the same except 1 is gear and 1 is hst AND the prices are the same.

soundguy

 

[jj4osu]

By most accounts HST would be better and I'd certainly agree if all things were equal...but we're not talking equal pricing at all. Especially if giving up functional HP on a HST tractor would cause me to need to go up a size larger.

So, lets say my base of what will work for me is a Mahindra 5035. Tractor w/ loader ~26.5k

JD 4320 w/ loader ~31/32k, or 4-5k more. But if I need to go up a size on the JD toa 4520, that adds another 2k or so.

I if the 4320 JD would work, maybe a Mahindra 4035 would work which I could get for ~3k less than the 5035.

So all in all, looking at a price difference of at least 4k or so and maybe upwards of 6-7k for truly comparable work capabilities on these two tractors.

Haven't gotten to the point of checking local prices on a Kubota or NH, but from last time around, they were very similar to JD pricing.

Now, if I just compare a gear tractor to gear tractor, I can get a 5055E w/ loader for maybe $1k over the Mahindra...but kinda think I like the Mahindra better, seems they pack a lot of substance into a more compact form...just seem more heavy duty. I know all of these tractors will be much more HD than my little 2210, but I don't think that thing is sturdy at all...seems to be falling apart from what to me doesn't see like heavy workload...basically seems like a glorified lawn mower. Need something that will stand up to the use on a small horse farm...no heavy plowing or anything, but rough terrain, variety of chores, etc...pulling an occaisional tree would even be a plus (that way I could even ditch the 190).

So, am I in the ballpark with the models??? Will a smaller HST 4120?? do the job or do I need to even move up in an HST? Is it really worth it to drop an extra 4-7k for the HST?? We're only talking ~200-250hrs/year or so on the tractor...bulk of the hours grooming arenas or working pastures.

If I decide an HST is the way to go, will have to get serious about choosing between JD/NH/Kubota...just haven't gotten that far with the other two yet. OR, is there another make/model with HST that might work? A while back someone mentioned a Kioti, but don't know of any dealers...MF possibly, just don't know enough about other makes.

Thanks for all the help and putting up with my rambling.

jj

 

[Soundguy]

keep us posted.

I don't think you can make a wrong choice here as long as you get what you want. ALL will do it.

some like hst.. some like the frugality of the gear units

good luck.. we are all counting on you.

soundguy

 

[Johndeere3720]

keep us posted.

I don't think you can make a wrong choice here as long as you get what you want. ALL will do it.

some like hst.. some like the frugality of the gear units

good luck.. we are all counting on you.

soundguy

well said

 

[TripleR]

If you can pick a tractor with:

1. Just the right horsepower, no more no less.
2. Just the right weight, no more no less.
3. Just the right loader performance, no more no less.
4. Just the right tires.
5. Just the right transmission for ALL of your needs.
6. Just the right price, no more; don't worry about the "less" part, won't
happen.

If you can do all this and more that you aspire to in your tractor selection, you can retire from your present job and become a very successful tractor consultant.

Good luck, Larry

 

[beppington]

Now that is funny! And true!

I'd also like to know what OP decides & your subsequent happiness level.

If you can pick a tractor with:

1. Just the right horsepower, no more no less.
2. Just the right weight, no more no less.
3. Just the right loader performance, no more no less.
4. Just the right tires.
5. Just the right transmission for ALL of your needs.
6. Just the right price, no more; don't worry about the "less" part, won't
happen.

If you can do all this and more that you aspire to in your tractor selection, you can retire from your present job and become a very successful tractor consultant.

Good luck, Larry

 

[jj4osu]

Well, after realizing we have a Kioti and a Bobact dealer locally I decided to check them out as well.

Looked at the Kioti DK50SE HST & basically the same Bobcat, CK450.

I liked them both, overall, probably a bit better than the Mahindra due to the HST. The Mahindra is definitely a bigger heavier tractor, and if I compared a similar Kioti, the DK55, I'd probably prefer the Mahindra, but it would be close. But think the 50hp HST will do the jobs I need easily and the wife will likely be happier with an HST she can run easier.

Quote I have on the Kioti is $23,500 for:
DK50SE HST
Quick Attach FEL
Bale Spear attachment for FEL
Fluid Filled tires (they said adds 350lbs per tire)
Remote Hydraulic Valve

Same setup on the Bobat would run ~$1300 more. Some things I prefer for each one, but for $1300 I think right now I'd stick with the Kioti.

This tractor has VERY similar specs to a JD 4320 would run ~29,750, BEFORE I add fluid to the tires, a Bale spear, remote hydraulic valve & extendable 3pt lift arms...very conservative est 1500 for those options puts it @ 31k+. Kioti/Bobcat also has one feature std that makes things easier...a lever to control the 3pt lift at the rear of the tractor!!

Double checking a NH 3050 this afternoon just to be sure...but unless I can get some substantial discounts, looks to be in the range of 1k less than the JD.

So, unless something drastically sways me, looks like I'm probably going Kioti.


Thanks for all the help.

jj

 

[jj4osu]

Checked out NH...closest they come is the 3045 with HST...a few hp less not a huge deal, it would still handle the chores I have. BUt, comes in at $28,400...so still 5k over the Kioti. Would like to try out a MF 1648 or 1653, have a quote on a 1648 at $27,400, but thats only tractor/loader combo, so will add to get bale spear, weight...from the website it looks like a better option than the NH, but again 5K+ higher than a Kioti, AND dealer doesn't have anything in that size or close in stock, and can't find one to test within a few hrs...doesn't bode well for them I guess.

Still looking like Kioti at this point....esp since I can add on a 6' TR3 arena drag and still be a few k under the competition.

Tractor seems sturdy...has features I like...plenty of power...dealer seems good...seems like a good option even if it were priced similarly to JD/NH/MF...so at several K less, looks good...almost TOO good. What am I missing here??

 

[JCB]

What am I missing here??

It's a Kioti.

I'm sure Kioti makes great tractors. I'm sure of it. You'll just wish it wasn't a Kioti when you go to sell it.

Last time I was home, I helped my dad fix a 30 year old John Deere (model 300??) manure spreader. It had worn out a cam that advanced the apron chain. We were thinking we have to take the worn out part to a machine shop to approximate what it was supposed to look like new.

We went to the the local JD dealer and had a new part dropped off in our driveway UPS three days later. It sure was worth it to spend the extra money on this JD manure spreader at the auction.

I'm sure Kioti's are great. I'd like to have one. But that's what you're missing.

 

[TripleR]

Checked out NH...closest they come is the 3045 with HST...a few hp less not a huge deal, it would still handle the chores I have. BUt, comes in at $28,400...so still 5k over the Kioti. Would like to try out a MF 1648 or 1653, have a quote on a 1648 at $27,400, but thats only tractor/loader combo, so will add to get bale spear, weight...from the website it looks like a better option than the NH, but again 5K+ higher than a Kioti, AND dealer doesn't have anything in that size or close in stock, and can't find one to test within a few hrs...doesn't bode well for them I guess.

Still looking like Kioti at this point....esp since I can add on a 6' TR3 arena drag and still be a few k under the competition.

Tractor seems sturdy...has features I like...plenty of power...dealer seems good...seems like a good option even if it were priced similarly to JD/NH/MF...so at several K less, looks good...almost TOO good. What am I missing here??

I have to agree with JCB, if you know for sure you will only trade it in for another Kioti or keep it forever, the money you lose on a trade will more than make up for the money you save on the front end.

I use to keep equipment/tractors a long time, have two over fifty years old, but will be trading when one gets less than dependable and in need of increased maintenance in the future and must keep resale value in mind. In my area that is limited to Kubota, JD, Case and NH. I am sure this will change with time as it did with Kubota, but not right now.