Does This Make Anyone Else Nervous Besides Me?

[20 20]

Hey while we're at it what about them motorcycles towing trailers?????? check out this guy towing a car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCalA006AZM

 

[wvpolekat]

The Honda Element has an optional Class III hitch available (which I believe we are looking at the shiny pin in the picture, pinheads). The tires are obviously well sized for that load so its never going to jackknife. All manufactirere load ratings are stated with the vehicle fully fued, loaded with passengers in all seats and with luggage space ballasted. If the Honda is empty, then there's legally no issue with this rig.

Completely wrong. As Chris pointed out, they are usually with a splash of gas and a 100lb driver and they are probably naked.

Also, I am sure you could put a Class V hitch on that Honda too, that doesn't mean it's safe.

"never going to jackknife" because the tires are "well sized"? You have to be kidding, right? An empty trailer jackknifes easier than a loaded one because it skids easier. Sliding wheel wants to lead. Has little to nothing to do with how well the tires are sized.

 

[Reg]

1500 pound snowmobile transporter. Honda Element.

Is it just me?

"Nervous" ? No.
"Disturbing" that anyone would find it necessary to appoint themselves as deputy dot inspectors and go around snapping pics like this to post on a public forum - with plates clearly showing ? Yes.

Legality aside (for the sake of the question re "Nervous").
Safety is MUCH more about HOW you drive than about WHAT you drive.
The pics don't convey much about the driver, some things about how they have prepared for this, but nothing about their driving.

As already expressed; the clown with way more truck than they need, feeling safe that the weight of the truck will get them out of any trouble, is a much bigger danger.
"Over trucking" is no substitute for competence.

BTW, there ARE safety factors in tow and load ratings.
e.g. a given item rated at 27863 pounds (an arbitrary number deliberately unrelated to this vehicle combo) will almost certainly hold up above 27,900 and probably above 30,000.
Yeah, I know you can get tickets for being a pound over, just saying that there is margin and things don't fall apart at an ounce over the rating.

 

[bp fick]

"Nervous" ? No.
"Disturbing" that anyone would find it necessary to appoint themselves as deputy dot inspectors and go around snapping pics like this to post on a public forum - with plates clearly showing ? Yes.

Your imagined scenario never happened. The owner proudly posted the photos himself, on a public tractor forum, showing off his new tractor.

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=101002

.

 

[zzvyb6]

Completely wrong. As Chris pointed out, they are usually with a splash of gas and a 100lb driver and they are probably naked.

Also, I am sure you could put a Class V hitch on that Honda too, that doesn't mean it's safe.

"never going to jackknife" because the tires are "well sized"? You have to be kidding, right? An empty trailer jackknifes easier than a loaded one because it skids easier. Sliding wheel wants to lead. Has little to nothing to do with how well the tires are sized.

As a matter of fact, I DO know what I'm talking about. I worked in the vehicle dynamics section of a major auto maufacturer doing design, testing, certification, "forseeable misuse" and other aspects of trailer towing on our vehicles. We test competitors, too, and the Honda Odessy and it's companions (Element and Scion) do an admirable job of structurally holding a hitch, trans temps, brake and cooling capacity. You're an armchair quarterback who never ran a fully loaded 3/4 ton truck with a 32' Airstream down Apache Trail at 50 mph (dirt section).

All vehicles must be certified at their stated full load capacities and a withness test performed and signed off on. Stopping is the greatest problem when trailer brakes are under capacity.

Those trailer tires are pretty good for cornering and can outdo most 15" and 16" tires, especially since they are on such wide wheels. The Jacknife will comeabout because of the tow vehicle yawrate, not the trailer.

Yeah, I've spun a few on purpose. Don't tell me what my job was. I've signed more reports on this than you have or ever will.

Your tire information is also quite wrong. Tires are softening springs under load and slip angle. How about your "guess" as to what their cornering stiffness is? I've measured them on a test machine so I know. I've also tested quite a few Sprint cup tires on the machine and on the tracks. Now go tell us all what "loose" and "tight" means. Bet you don't really know...

 

[wvpolekat]

As a matter of fact, I DO know what I'm talking about. I worked in the vehicle dynamics section of a major auto maufacturer doing design, testing, certification, "forseeable misuse" and other aspects of trailer towing on our vehicles. We test competitors, too, and the Honda Odessy and it's companions (Element and Scion) do an admirable job of structurally holding a hitch, trans temps, brake and cooling capacity. You're an armchair quarterback who never ran a fully loaded 3/4 ton truck with a 32' Airstream down Apache Trail at 50 mph (dirt section).

All the towing specs I have ever seen are clearly marked as with driver only and no cargo. Regardless of what you did, you are flat wrong.

Who are you to say what I have and have not done? Just because I don't brag about unsafe shenanigans and vehicle abuse, doesn't mean I am an idiot.

All vehicles must be certified at their stated full load capacities and a withness test performed and signed off on. Stopping is the greatest problem when trailer brakes are under capacity.

Certified by who? There is no government standard for this. Mfg puts a tow rating on it and GCWR and rolls it out the door. These are not "certified". There are too many variables to "certify" them with any trailer, just as you pointed out, brakes vary, loading varies, road conditions vary. There is even significant debate if exceeding the mfg ratings is illegal for non commercial vehicles. I have never seen a documented case of someone getting an overweight ticket in a private rig for being over what the door sticker says. I have seen several people asking to see this, but it never materializes.

Those trailer tires are pretty good for cornering and can outdo most 15" and 16" tires, especially since they are on such wide wheels. The Jacknife will comeabout because of the tow vehicle yawrate, not the trailer.

Are we taking this to an autocross or something? Who said anything about the cornering ability? Majority of jacknifes happen in panic stops because the trailer pushes the tow vehicle and tries to pass it. Not sure what fool would take any trailer around a corner fast enough to approach the lateral capabilities of the trailer tires.

Yeah, I've spun a few on purpose. Don't tell me what my job was. I've signed more reports on this than you have or ever will.

I don't recall your job or how many reports you have done anything to ever coming up. But, I can tell you that based on what you are saying here, they aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Your tire information is also quite wrong. Tires are softening springs under load and slip angle. How about your "guess" as to what their cornering stiffness is? I've measured them on a test machine so I know. I've also tested quite a few Sprint cup tires on the machine and on the tracks. Now go tell us all what "loose" and "tight" means. Bet you don't really know...

What, exactly are you smoking? What tire information? I don't believe I gave any tire information beyond commenting on your comment regarding jacknifes. If short, fat tires were better choices, I would suspect you would see them on many more trailers. But, for some reason, we don't. Wonder why? There are RV owners out there spending TONS of money on the best tires they can get to be safe and not have blowouts. Exactly NONE of them end up with tires that are anything like those. Why would I care what their cornering stiffness is? I care if they are rated for the load that is on them WAY before I am worried about how it will fare at the next autocross. The ONLY place you see tires like those are in low capacity applications, small campers, snowmobile trailers and the like. I know from experience with that type of tire on a popup camper that they are not very durable. Because of their small diameter, they spin VERY fast on the highway and fail often. I know people that travel with 2 and 3 spares they are so bad.

 

[Redbug]

Just looking at it...if that tractor shifts from swerving or hitting a pot hole...the guy could have a real problem. I see the way the tie down straps are over the front tires. No way those straps can stay tight and hold the cargo since those tires are not a solid material. They will give and the load will shift if there's enough pulling action. The guy also should criss cross the straps in an X configuration. That would really help keep keep it centered. The way the straps are now won't keep it centered for long with it bouncing around on a road.

I guess it would work OK the way it is just going slow for a short distance on a small road. But I would not want to be behind him on the interstate or at any rate of speed.

 

[Jaylegger]

The guy also should criss cross the straps in an X configuration. That would really help keep keep it centered. The way the straps are now won't keep it centered for long with it bouncing around on a road.

I've run across advocates of this criss cross pattern a few times on this site and honestly it makes absolutely no sense to me and think it's likely a myth. The way I see it instead of adding any load security in would in fact reduce it...significantly. I see a few issues with criss crossing tie-downs, first is if one of the tie down pair breaks the extra length required for criss crossing enables the load to move that much more in the direction being pulled, an extra foot or two of tie down length could forseeably be the difference between losing the load over the side of the trailer or not. Second, criss crossing would provide little roll-over support or relatively much less than simply securing four corners of the load to their respective deck tie-down point minimizing tie-down length. Third, additional length equates to additional tie-down stretch (webbed) which would reduce centering integrity.

The only scenario I would expect criss crossing would be a benefit is if the structural integrity of the load is suspect and criss crossing is needed to pull it together instead of pull it apart.

 

[dcyrilc]

I've run across advocates of this criss cross pattern a few times on this site and honestly it makes absolutely no sense to me and think it's likely a myth. The way I see it instead of adding any load security in would in fact reduce it...significantly. I see a few issues with criss crossing tie-downs, first is if one of the tie down pair breaks the extra length required for criss crossing enables the load to move that much more in the direction being pulled, an extra foot or two of tie down length could forseeably be the difference between losing the load over the side of the trailer or not. Second, criss crossing would provide little roll-over support or relatively much less than simply securing four corners of the load to their respective deck tie-down point minimizing tie-down length. Third, additional length equates to additional tie-down stretch (webbed) which would reduce centering integrity.

The only scenario I would expect criss crossing would be a benefit is if the structural integrity of the load is suspect and criss crossing is needed to pull it together instead of pull it apart.

We had the WSP in giving a class on the new laws which came out a few years back. Here equipment must be independently chained at each corner and any buckets must be on the deck and chained as well. For a backhoe, that means a minimum of 6 chains. Or a tractor with FEL, a minimum of 5 chains. Straps on equipment aren't legal here any more.

 

[Jaylegger]

We had the WSP in giving a class on the new laws which came out a few years back. Here equipment must be independently chained at each corner and any buckets must be on the deck and chained as well. For a backhoe, that means a minimum of 6 chains. Or a tractor with FEL, a minimum of 5 chains. Straps on equipment aren't legal here any more.

The presenter misinformed you regarding straps, chains are required only for heavy equipment over 10,000 lbs. Washington State follows load securement standards outlined in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's Cargo Securement Rules which essentially are the North American accepted standards "standard 10".