HP and size for Hay ??

[CentralNC]

This is the first time that I have experienced some "pains" at not having purchased a larger tractor. My neighbor is getting older (70+) and has some tractor problems. He has about 120 acres upon which he grows mostly hay. He cuts the hay 2-3x each year depending on the weather and the growth. He needs the hay in the fields for 2 reasons - the land can be zoned as ag vs. residential for tax purposes and it gives some extra income. I believe he does it mostly because he is a tough old cuss who can't set still on a pretty day.

The hydraulic pump on his old John Deere went out recently with hay left to be cut. I would like to help him with my tractor (TC35A), but it feels awfully small to be pulling a hay baler or rake. I don't think I will have any problems with the 6' sickle mower. The neighbor will be using his 8N Ford to pull the other attachments. That tractor is 58 years old and it runs like a champ.

Question: What size and type tractor (HP, FEL, etc.) would the group suggest for hay work? This would be more of an investment vs. a tractor to use around our house.

My neighbor has asked if I want to take over the hay operation in the future. I have about 6 acres that I want to use for hay, so we will be cutting a lot of hay in total. I would need to switch over from square bales to round bales so a FEL that would lift 2500 lbs is a must.

Thoughts??

 

[jlsmith]

I would use atleast a 70hp tractor It might b a little large right now but if you upgrade to a disk mower later or a new baler you'll b glad you have the bigger tractor.

 

[KWentling]

Not a hay expert here by any means but do have a little experience. I would agree with the 70hp minimum, the heavier the better. A round baler can push around a small tractor, especially if the ground isn't flat. You also need some weight to the tractor to handle bales safely. All though we got along ok with 2WD tractors, 4WD is great on a loader and you can get by with a little less ballast and still have the traction moving bales around.

Kim

 

[Mickey_Fx]

I wouldn't focus on engine HP but on tractor size with the ability to lift 2500# with fel. You will need a tractor large enough physically to handle that load without overloading it. Take the weight on the front end, add the weight of the fel and do you have enough spare capacity to easily support another 2500#? Don't forget there will be weight transfer when you lift the load. With the weight transfer the front axles and tires may see more than the 2500#. Unless the tractor is so large it is not an issue, one should calculate what the transfer is and that is a function of wheel base and how far out front is the fel bucket. On my little Yanmar the geometry is such for every pound placed in the bucket the front axle sees 2 lbs. On a newer tractor you may be able to find out the capacity from factory specs IF the fel is what was available originally from the company.

When I was haying yrs back I used a MF 165 (~55 hp) and it had adequate power for the tasks. Used a mower conditioner and sq baler. Typ yield on 1st cutting was ~4T/A and I was pushing the hay through the baler fairly fast. No fel and the tractor never lifted any hay. I doubt that tractor could support over a ton out front.

I'm sure you will find that on older tractors you will have more mass (wt.) for any given engine size than you do on todays models. They may have the power needed but won't be able to safely carry the load out front.

 

[Duffster]

This is the first time that I have experienced some "pains" at not having purchased a larger tractor. My neighbor is getting older (70+) and has some tractor problems. He has about 120 acres upon which he grows mostly hay. He cuts the hay 2-3x each year depending on the weather and the growth. He needs the hay in the fields for 2 reasons - the land can be zoned as ag vs. residential for tax purposes and it gives some extra income. I believe he does it mostly because he is a tough old cuss who can't set still on a pretty day.

The hydraulic pump on his old John Deere went out recently with hay left to be cut. I would like to help him with my tractor (TC35A), but it feels awfully small to be pulling a hay baler or rake. I don't think I will have any problems with the 6' sickle mower. The neighbor will be using his 8N Ford to pull the other attachments. That tractor is 58 years old and it runs like a champ.

Question: What size and type tractor (HP, FEL, etc.) would the group suggest for hay work? This would be more of an investment vs. a tractor to use around our house.

My neighbor has asked if I want to take over the hay operation in the future. I have about 6 acres that I want to use for hay, so we will be cutting a lot of hay in total. I would need to switch over from square bales to round bales so a FEL that would lift 2500 lbs is a must.

Thoughts??

I would say that 55-60 hp is the min but 70 would be much better.

Why do you need to lift 2500lbs? You realistically will not be making bales anywhere near that weight.

 

[showcattle]

Why do you need to lift 2500lbs? You realistically will not be making bales anywhere near that weight.

I agree. I would think 55-60 hp would be good. A JD 3020 would work well and it has some physical size to it.

 

[Duffster]

OP, what vintage of tractor are you looking for?

Like previously mentioned a 3020 would be a good choice, if diesel IMO.

I was going to mention a MF 275 or 285.

 

[CentralNC]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and comment. I was thinking about older used tractors vs. spending the $$ on a new tractor. The 55 - 75 HP range sounds like good advice as well. I would rather have extra HP and weight vs. needing either of them without having them available.

I am not sure why I had 2500 lbs as the target lift capacity for the FEL. I was thinking that the weight of the hay spear and the support bracket would be 100-200 lbs, so I wanted to make sure that I had enough capacity. I was also thinking about length and height for stacking round bales on my big Hudson trailer.

I had pictured a JD 3020 in my mind, but I have never seen one with a FEL. My Dad had a MF 245 when I was growing up, but it did not have a FEL on it either. I believe it was in that 45 HP range. I currently have a New Holland, so I checked out the Workmaster tractors on their website.

I think I might look at some used equipment and try to work up a budget with projection on yields. There are typically a lot of tractors for sale after the Fall harvest and hay season have ended. I will see what how the numbers look and discuss it again with my neighbor.

Thanks again for the advice and comments.

 

[CentralNC]

One more comment ... I have friend who has the Kubota M6040 FWD. It is a great hay tractor, but those are over $30k new. That type of expense is definitely not in the budget.

 

[smstonypoint]

I think I might look at some used equipment and try to work up a budget with projection on yields. There are typically a lot of tractors for sale after the Fall harvest and hay season have ended. I will see what how the numbers look and discuss it again with my neighbor.

Thanks again for the advice and comments.

Here's a link to a prototype NCSU budget for harvesting large round bales that may be useful.

http://www.ag-econ.ncsu.edu/extension/budgets/hayharvest_roundbales_84-2.pdf

Steve

 

[sweettractors]

I would go with 70 HP 2 wheel drive with FEL to handle the round bales and the hay roller. Ken Sweet

 

[jlsmith]

Like Ken said 70 hp (pto) and 2wd. Dont know y anyone would use a 4wd in a hay field.:thumbsup:

 

[Duffster]

Here's a link to a prototype NCSU budget for harvesting large round bales that may be useful.

http://www.ag-econ.ncsu.edu/extension/budgets/hayharvest_roundbales_84-2.pdf

Steve

With those numbers I think we paid for all of our equipment with first crop alone. :laughing:

 

[smstonypoint]

With those numbers I think we paid for all of our equipment with first crop alone. :laughing:

Note that the prototype budget does not include the costs of producing the hay crop; e.g., pro-rated establishment costs, fertilization, weed control, etc.

Steve

 

[blueriver]

I have been doing hay for a few years now. 2 tractors, 43hp and 55hp ... one 7' sickle mower and 0ne 8' disc mower ... round baler is a 4x4

I have 120 acres of hay. Do not under estimate the 4x4 bales. I find more folks have small tractors, small acreages and love handling the smaller rolls.

 

[Duffster]

Note that the prototype budget does not include the costs of producing the hay crop; e.g., pro-rated establishment costs, fertilization, weed control, etc.

Steve

Yes I noticed that.

I think the numbers are a bit exaggerated.

 

[smstonypoint]

Yes I noticed that.

I think the numbers are a bit exaggerated.

These prototype budgets are published to assist farmers in preparing their own budgets. The various expense items can be adjusted up or down according to each individual's situation.

As they say, your mileage may vary.

Steve

 

[KWentling]

Dont know y anyone would use a 4wd in a hay field.:thumbsup:[/QUOT
I should have used the term "MFWA" or "MFWD" and not "4WD"( didn't mean a Stieger!), but it sure makes a loader tractor get around better in low traction situations when you have a bale on the loader. I have a 1070 Case 2WD (108 hp PTO) with loaded rears that I have traction problems with sometimes feeding in the winter. I'll bet 80% of the tractors I see making hay around here are MFWD unless it's an older (pre 80's) tractor.

Kim

 

[Bigfoot62]

Like Ken said 70 hp (pto) and 2wd. Dont know y anyone would use a 4wd in a hay field.:thumbsup:

I don't use anything BUT a MFWD in my hay fields.
IMHO, a 2WD tractor with a FEL is useless, it's "crippled." (try backing up a hill with a 5'x6' round bale on a 2WD 70hp tractor) The MFWD tractor of the same size can safely handle a much bigger load. (look at the specs for just about any tractor and see how much greater the front axle capacity is for the MFWD)

 

[jlsmith]

I don't use anything BUT a MFWD in my hay fields.
IMHO, a 2WD tractor with a FEL is useless, it's "crippled." (try backing up a hill with a 5'x6' round bale on a 2WD 70hp tractor) The MFWD tractor of the same size can safely handle a much bigger load. (look at the specs for just about any tractor and see how much greater the front axle capacity is for the MFWD)

Well i guess its just all in knowing how to use the fel. As far as being useless i dont know about that cuz i NEVER had any problems loading moving or unloading hay. As far as pulling a baler or rake a 2wd is much more effective in the hay field. Verry FEW people in this area use 4wd in a hay field. Im not putting one in there and tearing up an $450,000 field. And yes i back up and drive up hill with a load of hay with my 2wd MF. True the front axle capacity is greater but when ur talking about hay bales the the 2wd axle has no prob. If your loading out a dump truck with rock or gravel then yes by all means the 4wd is much more effective and needed.