purlin sizes

/ purlin sizes #1  

bdog

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You may remember my thread on I-beams. Well I got a good deal on a semi load of 2 3/8" pipe so my plans on constructing my shed have changed. Instead of trying to make it clear span i have set 16 pipes in the ground to support the structure. I have attached a horrible drawing of what my plan is.

Basically the shed will be 36' wide and 39' feet deep. The pitch is in the 36' direction. With the 16 posts I have set in the ground (black on the drawing) the longest span for the purlin will be 13'. I plan on putting the purlins that the R panels will screw (green on my drawing) to on 4' centers so there will be a purlin centered over the pipes then two suspened in between the pipes by the purlins running in the direction of the pitch (yellow on the drawing).

I am guessing 4" purlins for the green ones will be plenty but I am wondering about the yellow ones if they need to be larger.
 

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/ purlin sizes #2  
BAD IDEA.

Hire yourself a PE for peice of mind because if I am reading your drawing correctly, you are grossly undersizing what you actually need.

The green purlins in your drawing you are wanting to use 2x4's on are spanning 13' on 4' centers correct???

This would cause your roof to sag and look horrible just under their own weight and the weight of the roof panels.:confused2:

I know you dont have much snow load if any down in texas, but it is still a good Idea for build for a 20PSF live load at a minimum IMO. It maybe just a little overkill, but will account for things like when thewind is blowing across the roof causing downforce (think of the rear wing on a racecar), or wanking on the roof, or a once in a lifetime snow, etc.

So with that in mind, in order to span that 13' on 4' centers would require at least a 2x10. (assuming we are talking white pine lumber. SYP is a litte stronger)

With these loads in mind, your beams (yellow in the drawing) are going to have to carry that point load @ 4' and @ 8'. The ones directally over the poles arent carrying any weight. It is being transfered right into the support. So with the 20psf load plus the weight of the 2x10's and roofing, you are going to be putting a load of ~550lbs on the beams everyplace a 2x10 purlin touches it. So on the outer two beams, that is a point load of 550lbs @ 4' and 550lbs @ 8'. Which would require a 2x12. The middle two beams, because the have a purlin from each side, this gets doubled. So you would need a double 2x12 on the middle ones.

And we havent even accounted for the load on your supports. Depending on how heavy the pipes are, I would be worrying about them buckling.

Again, it would be very wise on your part to consult an engineer in your area. He will be familiar with the building codes and what is acceptable live loads in your area. For a few hundred bucks, it will be money well spent to get it right instead of having the building collapse and have to do it all over again.
 
/ purlin sizes #3  
My gut feeling was also 'bad idea', but I didn't have the knowledge to back it.

Get an Engineer involved.

-Jer.
 
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/ purlin sizes #4  
I wouldn't want all those pipes/ posts in the interior of the shed being in the way all the time, knowing it's pretty easy & not that expensive to design it without them. You just need roof trusses.
 
/ purlin sizes #5  
I wouldn't want all those pipes/ posts in the interior of the shed being in the way all the time, knowing it's pretty easy & not that expensive to design it without them. You just need roof trusses.

Exacally.

Is there a reason you havent considered a convention post framed building. 36' trusses shouldn't be that expensive. And @ 4' OC, you would only need 10 of them. When you factor what all the 2x12's are going to cost, and the 2x10 purlins, trusses might be cheaper in the long haul. I may be wrong because I haven't priced trusses in awhile but a standard 36' truss from a truss company shouldn't be more than 50-60 bucks.

And just setting posts around the perimiter instead of in the middle, you might just save enough on concrete to offset the cost of the treated posts.

Not to mention, how were you planning on attaching the lumber to the round steel pipes anyway???

I would exhaust all other building options before I went ahead with the method you are describing.
 
/ purlin sizes #6  
I'm not sure how well this will work for you. If you want to use the pipe you may be better off welding them together to form a truss.
 
/ purlin sizes #7  
Not to mention, how were you planning on attaching the lumber to the round steel pipes anyway???

Would "probably" be OK to use those pipes around the exterior walls of the building, using u-bolts to secure lumber to them ... but this is unusual construction I'm not familiar with, & I'd probably want an engineer to actually tell me it's OK.
 
/ purlin sizes
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Sorry for the misunderstanding. There is no wood going to be in this structure. The 4" purlins are metal C purlins. I should have made that clear but I assumed since it was in the welding forum it would be assumed all metal.

I have a 50x50 shop that was engineered and they have 8" purlins on it on 5' centers spanning 25'. That is why I was thinking 4" spanning 12-13' would be ok but I don't know.

The pipes are already in the ground. It took 3 bags of mix each so roughly $150 in concrete. The pipes are heavy wall (.190). Very few sheds or shop buildings are build with wood around here. Everyone uses steel. Probably because the are no trees for miles and miles lol.

I wouldn't want all those pipes/ posts in the interior of the shed being in the way all the time, knowing it's pretty easy & not that expensive to design it without them. You just need roof trusses.

The sole purpose of the shed is to park three trailers in. Eash one will have a 12' "bay" to fit in. The poles will serve as guides so they are parked evenly. I have three other building for other purposes that are all clear span. This one is just to keep three trailers out of the weather.
 
/ purlin sizes #9  
I wouldn't want all those pipes/ posts in the interior of the shed being in the way all the time, knowing it's pretty easy & not that expensive to design it without them. You just need roof trusses.

Maybe he's planning an indoor maze??

-Jer.
 
/ purlin sizes #10  
Sorry for the misunderstanding. There is no wood going to be in this structure. The 4" purlins are metal C purlins. I should have made that clear but I assumed since it was in the welding forum it would be assumed all metal.

I have a 50x50 shop that was engineered and they have 8" purlins on it on 5' centers spanning 25'. That is why I was thinking 4" spanning 12-13' would be ok but I don't know.

The pipes are already in the ground. It took 3 bags of mix each so roughly $150 in concrete. The pipes are heavy wall (.190). Very few sheds or shop buildings are build with wood around here. Everyone uses steel. Probably because the are no trees for miles and miles


The sole purpose of the shed is to park three trailers in. Eash one will have a 12' "bay" to fit in. The poles will serve as guides so they are parked evenly. I have three other building for other purposes that are all clear span. This one is just to keep three trailers out of the weather.

What is going to be your material of choice for the "beams". The ones that span the 12' and carry the 13' purlins??

Are you going to use structural steel like c-channel or are you wanting to us a larger CEE type purlin like you are using for the purlins??
 
/ purlin sizes #11  
It seems for the CEE purlins they are allowing a good bit more than L/360 deflection.

I will attach a chart that I found that lists some allowable spans.

So back to my earlier #'s, the purlin is going to need to endure about 80lb per foot across its length.

Looking at the chart, A 4.0 x 2.5 16ga c-purlin will span 13 feet and be allowed 87 lb per foot. With a max deflection of about 1.5". That is like a L/100 deflection. Probabally a lot more deflection than I would like, but it is not my chart. 1.5" deflection over 13' seems a bunch to me, but????

The purlins are still going to be placing ~550lbs in two points are the outer "beams" and 1100lbs in two points on the middle beams. For this, I would use a 5" x 9 lb per foot structural c-channel.

There are some ligher CEE-purlins that would be strong enough to carry the load, but they dont offer as much lateral or torsional strangth. And they are also thinner, You will be able to get a much better weld using structural steel for the "beams" IMO.

Look this chart over. You have to change sections using the index to the left. Mainly look at the gross section properties and the simple span capacities.

Access LGSI
 
/ purlin sizes
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Maybe he's planning an indoor maze??

-Jer.

I know you are just poking fun but really I don't think they will be in the way?

Attached is an aerial view. Green will be the trailers, black is the sheeted sidewalls, and red is posts. Again sorry for my awesome paint skills.
 

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/ purlin sizes
  • Thread Starter
#13  
What is going to be your material of choice for the "beams". The ones that span the 12' and carry the 13' purlins??

Are you going to use structural steel like c-channel or are you wanting to us a larger CEE type purlin like you are using for the purlins??

I was thinking of using all C-purlins - 14 guage is what I believe they are locally.

A heavier c channel might be a better choice though.

I will look over the table you posted.
 
/ purlin sizes #14  
I was thinking of using all C-purlins - 14 guage is what I believe they are locally.

A heavier c channel might be a better choice though.

I will look over the table you posted.

While a 8" 14ga c-purlin will probabally work, I am more concerned about the connection between it and the posts. Not to mention the structural channel will offer far better lateral and torsion strength. Cost difference is probabally nil.

Now you sut have to find a way to hold things in place while you weld:D
 
/ purlin sizes #15  
You may remember my thread on I-beams. Well I got a good deal on a semi load of 2 3/8" pipe so my plans on constructing my shed have changed. Instead of trying to make it clear span i have set 16 pipes in the ground to support the structure. I have attached a horrible drawing of what my plan is.

Basically the shed will be 36' wide and 39' feet deep. The pitch is in the 36' direction. With the 16 posts I have set in the ground (black on the drawing) the longest span for the purlin will be 13'. I plan on putting the purlins that the R panels will screw (green on my drawing) to on 4' centers so there will be a purlin centered over the pipes then two suspened in between the pipes by the purlins running in the direction of the pitch (yellow on the drawing).

I am guessing 4" purlins for the green ones will be plenty but I am wondering about the yellow ones if they need to be larger.

You can go thirteen feet spans with six inch fourteen gauge purlins without any problems.

Since you have two and three eighths posts I suggest you consider a method of construction that I've had good luck with. I would go with eight inch purlins and here's how I would do it.

I would cut off my posts to their finished height. Then I would drill through one edge of the eight inch purlin. Let's say you're looking at the purlin from the end. What you see is the C. Now imagine a piece of pipe coming through the bottom flange of the C to rest on the inside of the top flange of the C. This connection gives you an added mechanical advantage if the welding skills aren't as good as they could be. The most difficult part is lining up the holes to be drilled.

Drilling the holes is not an easy operation. What I use is a half inch DeWalt drill that's big and has two handles. Even with that leverage when the hole saw makes that last spin a lot of the time it will want to bind up and wrap you around the purlin. So don't tackle this with a small drill and whatever you do, make sure you're braced when doing it.

You can also use an old method of mine for doing the side walls using the same drilling process. You go through the four inch piece of the four inch purlin with the drill bit. Then you can slide the purlins down the pipes. Again, you get a mechanical advantage.

The four inch purlin with the four inch in a horizontal position gives you a couple of things the conventional four inch vertical location doesn't offer. One is it more than doubles your lateral strength. Vertical strength isn't a critical consideration because when your attach your metal sheeting to the purlin you've picked up ungawdly vertical strength. What you're wanting is lateral, in and out, strength.

Another thing is offers is an easier way to frame in windows and doors if desired. What's really cool about this is you don't have to go to a steel supply and pay their price for a pre-hung door or window. The horizontal orientation enables you to frame up a box store pre-hung door or window at a fraction of the price.

It's also great to have a wall framed this way if you're wanting to insulate or add sheeting on the inside. You can attach the siding to the outside edge of the purlin and then place standard insulation between the wall and your inside sheeting whether it's wood or metal.

You can click on my signature and search my site for some examples of what I'm talking about. You can also do some searches here on TBN and see more examples of it.

Keep in mind that engineers are like attorneys. Sometimes you need them.
 
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/ purlin sizes #16  
I know you are just poking fun but really I don't think they will be in the way?

Attached is an aerial view. Green will be the trailers, black is the sheeted sidewalls, and red is posts. Again sorry for my awesome paint skills.

Should be ok if you're careful. Just worried that if you bump one. It might push the others to failure, and that'd be bad....
 
/ purlin sizes #17  
i'd take the pipe and build trusses.

you don't have to go to elaborate lengths fitting them up, just cut the angles, heat and hammer the ends partly flat, trim the heels of the flattened 45*s and weld them up

the first one is the toughest, after that just make copies right on top of the first one.:thumbsup:

you're going to have to a bit of cross bracing on the roof and the walls anyway. this way you can cross brace the underside of the trusses and the back corners of the building and the roof will hold the front corners and the ends true.

2cents
 
/ purlin sizes #18  
I did something along same lines I got a rail car full of metal cheap so I built a shed out of it. I think you will be fine with the posts in the middle and you may need to add a few extra braces. I used Z perlins and welded plates to attach them to the beams. You will have many people that don't understand why you built your way but it your happy with the set up build it.:thumbsup:
 

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/ purlin sizes
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Thanks for the replies. Thinking of either going Harv's route with the 8" drilled purlins or LD1's idea of the channel iron. I don't have a drill big enough (or a hole saw) to drill the purlin so by the time I buy those I could probably have paid for the channel iron. Been busy welding my fence up so still thinking on this one. Me and a helper have burned 75 pounds of welding rods in the last couple weeks so we might be able to make what ever we put up stick.
 
/ purlin sizes #20  
I also like Harvs idea that 6 inch purlins would be great for you.

6 in by 2.5 inch 14 gauge purlins weigh about 3.22 lb per foot so since steel is sold by weight they will cost a little over 1/3 of what the 9lb per foot channel someone mentioned will.

You would have to hit those poles with a truck going 50 miles an hour to knock that building down, a little bump is not gonna do it. :)

Edit: Harvs method on the 8in purlins would be even better overkill.
 

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