Your time is not free

[Iplayfarmer]

... I don't think many of us are building implements and tools for the **** of it. I mean it would be pointless to build a backhoe just cause you love to build stuff if you just left it sit unused once you were done. Clearly you would build it because you wanted to use it for WORKING.
Can't see why that is so hard to understand.

I think this is where the friction and tension in this thread is coming from. Obviously from reading the replies, there are a number of us who are building implements and tools for the ****of it. I know I am.

I could have accomplished everything I needed to do with a $50 garden cart, but I took the time and built a hydraulic dump cart because I wanted the challenge, and I thought it would be fun (it was). I can do everything I need for any planned projects with an $80/day rented trencher, but I've always thought it would be fun to build a backhoe so I am. If I hadn't had so much fun building the dump cart I'd have never decided to tackle the backhoe.

Please grant us the freedom to be the kind of people that do this kind of silly stuff for the fun of it. Building a backhoe for the fun of it is no less pointless than chasing a little dimpled ball around a a golf course all morning just to hit it away from you again. Or taking off in a boat just to end up right back where you started from. Or, jumping out of a perfectly good airplane just for the excitement of free falling for a few seconds before deploying a parachute. Or, leaving the comfort of a nice home to spend a few days living in a small tent, cooking food with primitive methods, and peeing in the bushes.

It's called recreation. It doesn't have to make sense.

 

[GT2]

I think that the reason there is so much "disrespect" is because of the title: "Your time is not free", Then the wording in the first sentence.
These two items put everyone on the defense immediately.

Should have been : My time is not free.
:thumbsup:

 

[o2batsea]

I think this is where the friction and tension in this thread is coming from. Obviously from reading the replies, there are a number of us who are building implements and tools for the ****of it. I know I am. .

This is our theoretical parting of the ways, my friend. You build it to DO STUFF with, complexity of the implement is immaterial. The moment it goes into service it becomes an asset. If it is an asset that you took time to build it has intrinsic value part of which is your labor and expertise. My premise is that you must include the time you took to build it into account when placing a value on this asset. By extension you must also include any resources and facilities that cost you money in your time equation. (You can't say that your tracked dumper is only worth the materials you purchased to build it.) Therefore your time is not free, even though you used your "free" time to build it.
It only has hobby value if you build it as your hobby but do not include it as an asset over and above it's enjoyment in building. So if you build it for the h-e-*-* of it, you cannot use it, just build it. Am I making sense?

 

[beppington]

O h b o y h e r e w e g o a g a i n

 

[o2batsea]

I think that the reason there is so much "disrespect" is because of the title: "Your time is not free", Then the wording in the first sentence.
These two items put everyone on the defense immediately.

Should have been : My time is not free.
:thumbsup:

I think I am getting people stirred up because they think I am accusing them of wasting time, or that their time is less valuable than mine. Neither is true. I'm trying to get them to see that their projects are more valuable than they give themselves credit for because I think they devalue their time. I stand by what I wrote.

 

[grunewald]

Think what the OP is trying to say is, as an example: If you build a picnic table on your free time, total material cost at say $100, for your use only at your house, same picnic table you could have bought for $200. Somebody stops by house, wants you to build same table for him, what would you sell it for? Difference here is most people here build for themselves, not expecting a profit. I build things for myself because I have a fixed amount of cash on hand, say $200, built this same table for $100, still have $100 in my pocket, good feeling. If bought table for $200, no good feeling and broke. Building it did not cost money to myself, I SAVED $100 for something else.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

This is our theoretical parting of the ways, my friend. You build it to DO STUFF with, complexity of the implement is immaterial. The moment it goes into service it becomes an asset. If it is an asset that you took time to build it has intrinsic value part of which is your labor and expertise. My premise is that you must include the time you took to build it into account when placing a value on this asset. By extension you must also include any resources and facilities that cost you money in your time equation. (You can't say that your tracked dumper is only worth the materials you purchased to build it.) Therefore your time is not free, even though you used your "free" time to build it.

I agree to disagree, but I do want to understand your point as much as possible.

You're right... my dump cart will never have as much value to someone else as is has to me. It makes a heck of a conversation piece, though.

It only has hobby value if you build it as your hobby but do not include it as an asset over and above it's enjoyment in building. So if you build it for the h-e-*-* of it, you cannot use it, just build it. Am I making sense?

I don't really count any of my hobby builds as any kind of asset as they are all very amateur. What I don't understand is why it can't have hobby value if after the fun part is over I decide to use it? Does someone who knits for a hobby not wear what they knit? Does all of your time spent boating come back to haunt you if you all of a sudden picked up a paid passenger? Can I only enjoy baking homemade cookies so long as I don't eat them?

 

[beppington]

Think what the OP is trying to say is, as an example: If you build a picnic table on your free time, total material cost at say $100, for your use only at your house, same picnic table you could have bought for $200. Somebody stops by house, wants you to build same table for him, what would you sell it for? Difference here is most people here build for themselves, not expecting a profit. I build things for myself because I have a fixed amount of cash on hand, say $200, built this same table for $100, still have $100 in my pocket, good feeling. If bought table for $200, no good feeling and broke. Building it did not cost money to myself, I SAVED $100 for something else.

Well I hoped a nice, concise post like that would help me understand, but no I guess I still don't get it.

Maybe it's really a "feel" thing that differs for each person. OP wants to use a firm 90 bux an hour to determine whether he will do something, whereas I just go, "Do I want to do it?" If so, I just do it. If not, I start comparing the cost of hiring a pro to how bad I don't want to do it."

 

[firedog]

Perhaps the OP stated and I missed it, but one thing thats not being mentioned here is the value (not necessarily monetary) of the satisfaction you get from working on projects. Whether it's actually building the project or using the project when complete. This must be added back into the equation.
Yes, when compared against all other things, my time has value. While I can't place a number on it, the OP has attempted this to help rationalize the usage of his time.

If you think about it, deer meat is by far one of the most expensive, when you consider the cost that goes into it. (rifle, ammo, lease, feeder, 4 wheeler, etc.) But the enjoyment received, time with a son, time in the woods, etc. must be considered. For most of us, we come out in the positive, if we didn't we, would no longer do these things. I think "smstonypoint" stated this, just in a more elegant manner. :thumbsup:

Now on the lighter side. Having used my time reading all these post. I'v come to the conclusion that each of you owe me a sum of money. I'm just not sure whether to bill the by the word or by each post.:licking:

Now I would like to be standin' on the corner when that strange & wonderous duo "o2batsea & mace" came a walking. BTW, ...wasn't there an animated SNL skit titled that, years ago.

 

[smstonypoint]

Now on the lighter side. Having used my time reading all these post. I'v come to the conclusion that each of you owe me a sum of money. I'm not sure whether to bill the by the word or by each post.:licking:

OK, I will pay up. Here's my :2cents:

Steve

 

[tungularafishcamp]

That's what I would probably be doing "Sitting watching TV" had I not been outside working on some project.

And I'd much rather be out working on making my backhoe or making something else other than sitting in the house all day.

I don't value everything in money. I just got back from helping a friend haul some wood to her house. I spent 2 hours of my time gathering it and loading it in my truck, driving to her house and then unloading it for her.

I didn't charge her a dime for any of it. Including gas for my truck.

Chad

Chad your missing out on Big Bucks, I have 2 little ole ladies that live next door to our town house that I am always doing stuff for and I make them pay thru the nose...and the mouth with the best oatmill/craison cookies I ever had
Rick

 

[jgrreed]

Well I hoped a nice, concise post like that would help me understand, but no I guess I still don't get it.

Maybe it's really a "feel" thing that differs for each person. OP wants to use a firm 90 bux an hour to determine whether he will do something, whereas I just go, "Do I want to do it?" If so, I just do it. If not, I start comparing the cost of hiring a pro to how bad I don't want to do it."

No, I think you do get it. That's how I understand it as well. Some may use 90$, some 20$, some 500$ - it all depends what you do for your 'real job'. I'd throw in there as well that I consider how much of a mess I might make of said project before it's 'right' (and the costs and time associated with a re-do).

-Jer.

 

[chad22]

Chad your missing out on Big Bucks, I have 2 little ole ladies that live next door to our town house that I am always doing stuff for and I make them pay thru the nose...and the mouth with the best oatmill/craison cookies I ever had
Rick

lol. :laughing: I'll have to come over and get me some of those cookies. :licking: They sound great.

When I get there and see those cookies. I just might turn into cookie monster. Or should I show up in a cookie monster costume? :laughing:

Chad

 

[tungularafishcamp]

They don't care either way, when I get back to town I am pretty bushy both literally and figureitivly and smelling of fish. They hardly let me get in the door to my house before they want me coming over for coffee n cookies, life is rough sometimes but I will work for cookies any day:licking:
Rick

 

[Bison]

Jeez,you guys still yapping about time free or not/?
seems to me that time is being yapped away :laughing:

 

[Eyeshade]

I'm brand new to TBN ( my first post) but I think O2batsea is correct. I value my time at $90 per hour too; that is why I haven't slept in years. I figured it was costing me $90 x 8 hours or $720 a night to sleep. I found a guy down the street who will sleep for $200 a night so I farmed it out.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm brand new to TBN ( my first post) but I think O2batsea is correct. I value my time at $90 per hour too; that is why I haven't slept in years. I figured it was costing me $90 x 8 hours or $720 a night to sleep. I found a guy down the street who will sleep for $200 a night so I farmed it out.

:laughing:

Great post. Point taken.

 

[doall]

It's all good guys. As slow as I type that'll be $10 somebody.:thumbsup:

But I see what he is talking about. It's simply what I have stated twice before If you only put $200 in a homemade bulldozer; you really have way more than that in it if you count your time. Not saying that it was a waste of time or a bad investment of time or money; only that you really have more in it. If you buy a $100,000 bulldozer all the money doesn't go for steel and components; they have labor in it=time.

 

[SensibleNick]

You build it to DO STUFF with, complexity of the implement is immaterial. The moment it goes into service it becomes an asset. If it is an asset that you took time to build it has intrinsic value part of which is your labor and expertise. My premise is that you must include the time you took to build it into account when placing a value on this asset.

....a boat I outfitted and rigged myself,

That's a Nice asset you have there then. Your time spent on it and using it (by your definition) must have a cost.

The area in which things fall down in this entire debate, is the definition of what people do: Is it simply for Fun, or is it a Necessary task? Further complication arises because some of us get great pleasure from doing necessary tasks.

My Granddad once said "Find a job you love, and you'll never work a day in your life" Now.. my company charges upwards of $250 and hour for what I do... but I don't get paid anything like that.... When my friends ask for help I give them help for free. I enjoy helping people: it makes me happy to see them happy.

I think you spend too much time making false assumptions about me.

Your OP did exactly that about a lot of people here. Don't get grumpy when they return the favour.

I make stuff for fun... Even if I need to make it or not, I usually enjoy it. Sometimes however I'd rather pay $100 to get a part on a car changed instead of doing the job myself ... I'd rather have the time to make stuff.

Overall I' think it's rather tragic to assign a cost to your free time. It must make it rather hard to enjoy life.

 

[Renze]

This is our theoretical parting of the ways, my friend.

so, bye bye then.