Maybe we should have gotten a crankcase heater in the L3940!

[Grateful11]

Well it took 4 tries to get it started today and it was 36 F in the shed, glow plugs on until it goes off and crank for 10 seconds then stop and let it set for
about 30 and tried again the 4th time was the charm. I put a digital voltmeter on the starter and got 10 volts while she tried to start it. We took the battery out and had it load tested at the dealer they said it was fine, it's a 585CCA battery. They're coming over tomorrow weather permitting and are going to try and see what they can find, they're also bringing a rollback just in case. Makes me wish I had bought from the nutty Kubota dealer a 1/4 mile away, at least we could drive it to the dealer, just can't quite get along with the guy like so many others.

BTW: It turned over fast enough today that for the life of me I can't see why it didn't start the first try. Since we stopped turning it off all and not letting it idle once running, 1400-1500 rpm's while feeding higher when moving, it seems to be turning over faster but it's still having trouble starting. I got in the 6 cyl. Cummins Case IH 5140 yesterday, the high was 29, it fired right off within 2 seconds, no glow plugs, no ether. Even the IH 574 started right up Monday when they ground feed with the Grinder Mixer, that tractor is almost 40 years old and over 5000hrs.

Any possiblility of maybe some bad glow plugs or something? Dealer has already said he finds it hard to believe it could be a bad starter, I got a bad feeling about the relationship I'm getting into with this dealer and he's one of the biggest around, heck he has 2 M135's on his lot, he recently sold a Kubota tractor with rear tracks, he's high volume so he has to be doing something right. Wonder what this service call is going to cost us? They said they didn't cover travel or pickup and delivery but will cover warranty work which I knew that going in.

 

[Egon]

Oh Dear, has the fuel supply route been checked out.

What about throttle position when starting?

 

[PHILIP8N]

Oh Dear, has the fuel supply route been checked out.QUOTE]

With the additional information, that was my next thought as well. Check the fuel stop valve and fuel filter. Hose from fuel tank, etc. There is a fuel shut off valve somewhere, but I have never used it. I started my L3940 at 13F without problems yesterday. Started last winter at 0F without problems. I do not think it is one bad injector as it would fire and run on 3 cylinders. Something is keeping all the fuel from getting into the cylinders. Philip.

 

[crazyal]

Unfortunately there are times when it's best to get the dealer involved.

My Case backhoe has a small inline fuel filter, looks like an aftermarket filter you can buy from any auto parts store. There's a small rib around the outside in the center of the filter, I think it's where the two halves are joined together. It had a small leak on that seam. Not enough for fuel to come out but when stopped it would get air into the system. When hot it would start a little hard but when cold it would take either a little help (shot of either) or a good 40 seconds of cranking before you would start to see smoke coming out the exhaust.

It's long out of warranty and I'm not sure if the filter is stock but I spent a lot of time looking for the problem, would look and look then give up and do what I need to do with the BH. Finally the leak got just big enough so I could see it was wet. For a couple of bucks my problem was solved.

I think a dealer would have gotten there with maybe an hour or so worth of work. A simple pressure test or vacuum check of the line would have raised the red flag. But I can only guess how much wear I put on the starter until I solved it.

Your tractor is new and each time you try to start it you put a little wear on your starter. If the voltage is low that puts even more wear on it. Even if it cost you some money it'll probably be a break even for the added life to your starter.

 

[leonz]

Well it took 4 tries to get it started today and it was 36 F in the shed, glow plugs on until it goes off and crank for 10 seconds then stop and let it set for
about 30 and tried again the 4th time was the charm. I put a digital voltmeter on the starter and got 10 volts while she tried to start it. We took the battery out and had it load tested at the dealer they said it was fine, it's a 585CCA battery. They're coming over tomorrow weather permitting and are going to try and see what they can find, they're also bringing a rollback just in case. Makes me wish I had bought from the nutty Kubota dealer a 1/4 mile away, at least we could drive it to the dealer, just can't quite get along with the guy like so many others.

BTW: It turned over fast enough today that for the life of me I can't see why it didn't start the first try. Since we stopped turning it off all and not letting it idle once running, 1400-1500 rpm's while feeding higher when moving, it seems to be turning over faster but it's still having trouble starting. I got in the 6 cyl. Cummins Case IH 5140 yesterday, the high was 29, it fired right off within 2 seconds, no glow plugs, no ether. Even the IH 574 started right up Monday when they ground feed with the Grinder Mixer, that tractor is almost 40 years old and over 5000hrs.

Any possiblility of maybe some bad glow plugs or something? Dealer has already said he finds it hard to believe it could be a bad starter, I got a bad feeling about the relationship I'm getting into with this dealer and he's one of the biggest around, heck he has 2 M135's on his lot, he recently sold a Kubota tractor with rear tracks, he's high volume so he has to be doing something right. Wonder what this service call is going to cost us? They said they didn't cover travel or pickup and delivery but will cover warranty work which I knew that going in.

first
I am more inclined to think the injection pump is starved and the inlet fuel line and or screen in the base of the tank is plugged; Is the inlet screen in place at the filler neck of the tank if not......................


second

Forgive the question from far away, but when was the last time the air filters were changed and were both the outer and safety element changed?

I have had engines that were so bad with paper elements the the minute you put the old filter back in the engine keeled over and stopped dead.


My other question is if you have metric wrenches to break the banjo bolt fuel connection at the injection pump inlet to assure it is pulling fuel?

 

[KWentling]

It would seem as though the battery and charging system is good. I too would doubt that the starter is an issue, but you never know. The comment that it started on the 4th try would point to a possible loss of prime. I wonder if this tractor has an electric fuel pump or mechanical? If its an electric pump, I would expect that the pump would have time to push the air out by the time the glow plug cycle ends, but if mechanical, it wouldn't pump until the starter turns the engine over and would take some time. Maybe as much as the 4th try?
It will be interesting to see what the dealer finds.

Kim

 

[Grateful11]

I'll admit we haven't done a thing to the fuel filter yet but the primary air filter has been pulled twice and cleaned and the secondary has been inspected and put back in. There was very little dust on the primary each time, this tractor doesn't see field service, too small for that in her operation. We have 91.3 hours on it now with cows in 3 different locations we're now putting 30 minutes per day on it. All our fuel comes from a 500 gallon tank with a GoldenRod filter on it.

BTW: I doubt the dealer is going to show today the interstate between us and them is shut down on one side due to an overturned Semi and the other side has a wrecked FedEx truck due to snow and ice.

When you guys say your L series tractors are starting at say 0 to 20 degrees, are they starting with one glow plug session and on the first try or what?

 

[leonz]

So you never have never changed the air filters and threw the old ones out????????!!!!!!!!

When you get a minute you should remove the inner and outer filters and see if it fires. The inner and outer elements are not ment to be cleaned and reused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and if your dealer says they are I will personally tell him to S&*t in his Kubota hat.

Is any of the exhaust smoke black?

you can have a plugged air filters in any location so thats not an issue.

Does this tractor have a precleaner stack or only the dual elelement system?

IS the screen in the filler neck still there?


The injection pump is a fuel pump and does not require a second pump.

If the fuel line was bad it would still try to fire even though it was collapsed as some fuel would get there.

You definitely need Racor fuel filter water separator with a fuel heating element in the sediment bowl for that Kubota after the tractors fuel tank.

 

[PHILIP8N]

When you guys say your L series tractors are starting at say 0 to 20 degrees, are they starting with one glow plug session and on the first try or what?

I started last winter at 0F and two days ago at 13F, actual temps, not wind chill. Cycle glow plugs one time, crank, and fires RIGHT off. Knocks and smokes for 15 seconds, but that is normal. I idle at 800-900 rpm for 2 minutes then increase to 1200 rpm (to charge battery, battery does not charge at 800 rpm) until coolant gauge reads 2 bars, then off to work. Philip.

 

[JoeL4330]

Sounds like it was originally a combination of factors ...low battery because of operating regimen of starts/stops/low-idle and the present problem, which sounds like either fuel, or the glow plugs.

After it starts (on the 4th try) is there initial serious exhaust smoke? If not, then my thought is it was under-fueled on the first 3 tries. Consider going through the fuel bleeding process ...crack lines and see if you get fuel on the first try, second, third ...if no fuel at initial try, sounds like it's losing prime and just re-tightening all fuel connections might help. On some machines, air bubbles can be the devil to get rid of and they always gravitate back up to the high points (i.e., injectors) overnight.

Incidentally, on some of my diesel eqpt, the glow plug light is timer-controlled, but not the glow plugs, themselves ...you can glow longer than the light would suggest, and that might be beneficial.

Anxious to find out what the mechanics find.

 

[leonz]

Thats the biggest reason I own a salamander as nothing I own has a pre start motor oil circulating pump.

 

[Grateful11]

So you never have never changed the air filters and threw the old ones out????????!!!!!!!!

When you get a minute you should remove the inner and outer filters and see if it fires. The inner and outer elements are not ment to be cleaned and reused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and if your dealer says they are I will personally tell him to S&*t in his Kubota hat.

Is any of the exhaust smoke black?

you can have a plugged air filters in any location so thats not an issue.

Does this tractor have a precleaner stack or only the dual elelement system?

IS the screen in the filler neck still there?


The injection pump is a fuel pump and does not require a second pump.

If the fuel line was bad it would still try to fire even though it was collapsed as some fuel would get there.

You definitely need Racor fuel filter water separator with a fuel heating element in the sediment bowl for that Kubota after the tractors fuel tank.

I'm confused, where did I say I threw the air filters out? We have 6 tractors
all well maintained, our air filters are cleaned and put back on a reg. basis.
It has the large primary air filter and the secondary smaller inner filter that
everything I've heard said do not try to clean the secondary filter.

Here's what I said ;-)
>"the primary air filter has been pulled twice and cleaned and the secondary has been inspected and put back in."

>"You definitely need Racor fuel filter water separator with a fuel heating element in the sediment bowl for that Kubota after the tractors fuel tank."

Why would I need a different setup than what came with the tractor?

 

[Johnbro]

It's not air filters, and you don't NEED a Racor on your tractor. It should start fine. A Racor is a nice addition, probably extend your service life, but the lack of same shouldn't prevent your diesel from starting right up. I agree with the fuel system as the likely culprit. I would bleed it and make sure all the fittings are tight and not leaking down between uses.

 

[Grateful11]

Well I'm glad I got the dealer involved. He left with the tractor about an hour ago.
He tried to start it and immediately knew something wasn't right. He took a jumper
wire and put it on the glow plugs somewhere and it fired up instantly. I wasn't able to
be there when he, the head mechanic and the the guy that started the dealership
came over. My wife said please tell me it's something you can fix here and he
said no I've got to take the dash off. So onto the rollback it went and he would
start on it as soon as they got it to the shop. She's hoping it will be back before
feeding time but I doubt it, it's a 35 minute drive one-way. She said it sounded
as if this is not the first one they've had with this problem, he said it was something
that wasn't hooked up right at the factory. Hopefully I'll be able to ask exactly what
it was when they get back, I'd really like to know exactly what the problem is.
You never know someone else out there maybe experiencing the same thing.

 

[leonz]

I'm confused, where did I say I threw the air filters out? We have 6 tractors
all well maintained, our air filters are cleaned and put back on a reg. basis.
It has the large primary air filter and the secondary smaller inner filter that
everything I've heard said do not try to clean the secondary filter.

Here's what I said ;-)
>"the primary air filter has been pulled twice and cleaned and the secondary has been inspected and put back in."

>"You definitely need Racor fuel filter water separator with a fuel heating element in the sediment bowl for that Kubota after the tractors fuel tank."

Why would I need a different setup than what came with the tractor?

The air filters should be tossed and not cleaned;

You can actually have air filters so plugged they will be destroyed by being sucked into the engines intake piping- happens more than people realise. The air flow restriction indicators are niether fool proof or truly accurate either and need to be cleaned or replaced occasionally as they do not give you a true Hg. reading from the intake where a milk house vacuum pump gauge kit would be of great benefit.



The secondary safety element filters are not ment to be inspected and reused!


The racor filter removes water and debris to 2 micron depending upon the cartridge and the water is totally stopped from entering the injection pump.




The Japanese fuel storage standards are much higher than ours hence the fine fuel filters on the engines.

I have had diesels stop dead in their tracks from water plugging up the Racor cartridge filters.

The fuel bowl removes the dirt and crud and the water as the fuel flows through the turbine and settles out as it is spun to the sediment bowl wall.


The tractors are built around the Kubota built engines and transmissions.

The tractors sold here are subject to the designers whims and what
equipment they can fit in the space.

When all the Kubota tractors were imported directly in the early 1980's they had many fewer problems as quality control was not an issue they had to worry about.


I dont have nickle invested, but I really dont want to see anyone spend a small fortune buying a new injection pump because of water and dirt when it is not necessary either.

 

[Egon]

From the sounds of things I feel very embarrassed!

Maybe someday I'll win one!

 

[RickB]

The air filters should be tossed and not cleaned;

You can actually have air filters so plugged they will be destroyed by being sucked into the engines intake piping- happens more than people realise. The air flow restriction indicators are niether fool proof or truly accurate either and need to be cleaned or replaced occasionally as they do not give you a true Hg. reading from the intake where a milk house vacuum pumg gauge kit would be of great benefit.



The secondary safety element filters are not ment to be inspected and reused!


The racor filter removes water and debris to 2 micron depending upon the cartridge and the water is totally stopped from entering the injection pump.




The Japanese fuel storage standards are much higher than ours hence the fine fuel filters on the engines.

I have had diesels stop dead in their tracks from water plugging up the Racor cartridge filters.

The fuel bowl removes the dirt and crud and the water as the fuel flows through the turbine and settles out as it is spun to the sediment bowl wall.


The tractors are built around the Kubota built engines and transmissions.

The tractors sold here are subject to the designers whims and what
equipment they can fit in the space.

When all the Kubota tractors were imported directly in the early 1980's they had many fewer problems as quality control was not an issue they had to worry about.


I dont have nickle invested, but I really dont want to see anyone spend a small fortune buying a new injection pump because of water and dirt when it is not necessary either.

If the tractor runs and performs as designed once the difficult starting is overcome, it is impossible for me to believe that water and dirt has anything to do with the immediate problem, or that replacing the injection pump is an indicated solution. Further, there is absolutely nothing wrong with examining and reinstalling a pristine secondary air filter.
Lets bring the discussion back to the actual symptoms and possible cures.

 

[crazyal]

I hope they fix it quickly. If your glow plugs aren't working I think that could be the root cause of your problem. I've heard of people turning on the engine, waiting for the glow plug light to go out, turning it off then back on to have glow plugs come on again before trying to start it but I never have. Mine will start (the teens have been the lowest I started it in so far) just by waiting for the glow plug light to go out and it only takes a second or two and it fires up. I have been very impressed with how quickly it fires up.

I would have thought the glow plugs were controlled with something that monitors the temp of the glow plugs (or chamber). Maybe it just used a standard time based on the engine coolant temp. If so it wouldn't know if they came on or not, just supplies power for a preset time and then shuts oof. It's nice to learn new things.

 

[Grateful11]

No one should feel embarrassed y'all were trying to help. It didn't make
back today, hopefully it make it back tomorrow. You should have heard her
when I said they might leave outside at the dealership tonight. She and her
late Dad never left any tractor outside in the elements. Man did she get loud,
"they better not" she said.

I appreciate all the suggestions. I will definitely post any and all details they
give us when it comes back. It's suppose to snow in the morning so it may not
make back tomorrow either. What do most dealers charge for pickup and
delivery back, I figure around $150. We have a Hudson trailer that would haul
but it's never been titled and tagged, she and my son use it to haul round bales.

I'm going clean the fuel filter regardless when it gets back, book says kerosene
but wouldn't mineral spirits do it?

 

[JoeL4330]

so, here's a guess: recall that the original complaint was turning over slow...and, some improvement when allowed to idle at a charging rate, rather than constant stop-start ...and, started right up when glow plugs were energized directly ...so, just guessing, there's an unwanted path to ground around the glow plugs...short in the glow plug relay?