Putting Split Rail Fence in

[MMH]

Want to put in a 300' split rail fence in. I was planning to dig about 2 feet deep w/ a PHD, tamp & put down some gravel. Drop post in and back fill w/ dirt. Don't really know how rocky the soil is (I'm in western PA, just east of Pittsburgh). Want to start next month (January). Other than putting up w/ the cold, are there any issues w/ doing this in the dead of winter?

Am I oversimplifying, or is that all that there is to it?

 

[Mousefield]

Not sure what type of split rail you are putting up. Ours is a zig zag style. We just put a starter piece on the ground and then built it up from there. They are wired together. Hope this helps.

 

[lakngulf]

Not sure what type of split rail you are putting up. Ours is a zig zag style. We just put a starter piece on the ground and then built it up from there. They are wired together. Hope this helps.

That is a great look in Mousefield Meadows. What is the origin of the name?

MMH, do you have a design in mind that differs from the picture mousefield has posted. Looks like no post hole is needed for this type

 

[MMH]

That is a great look in Mousefield Meadows. What is the origin of the name?

MMH, do you have a design in mind that differs from the picture mousefield has posted. Looks like no post hole is needed for this type

I was thinking about a split rail type where the posts get placed into the ground & have slots cut in them for the rails.

 

[beenthere]

Are you concerned with frozen ground (dirt) ?

I have put in a lot of the rail fence on posts, and found it to be rewarding, but time consuming.

For me, had to do one post hole at a time, then place the three rails in the previous post (that was tamped, on the line, and straight up/down) and the new post. Then level it, see that it is on the line, and tamp it in. Then move to the next post hole, and repeat.

The desire to punch all the holes first and then go back to erect the fence is good only in theory. In practice, it doesn't work that well as the hole spacing will get "off" rather quickly.

A string for a line to then paint a stripe on the ground helps keep a straight fence.
Then a means to keep the top rail (controlled by the depth of the post and height of the slots) straight with the ground is important and sometimes difficult to do right.

 

[forgeblast]

After putting a three rail fence in Pa ground, I can say do one post at a time. I had to move around shelves of rock, had to use jackhammer bits to smash some of the shelves just to get down. I backfilled with gravel. I also put field fencing on the inside of mine to keep the mutts in.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I'd go 3 feet deep on the posts, then backfill with 3/4 down lime. That's pretty standard for fences around here.

For knocking the slots in, I find a large electric drill, followed by cleaning the slots out with a chisel, works best. Others say a chainsaw is the way to go, but I find that it's not as accurate. I like the joints tight enough that they rails have to be tapped into place. I like to use screws to fasten them too...just a little extra security and fewer call-backs. Just counter-sink the screw and nobody but you will know it's there.

I generally drill the post holes and put all of the posts in first, but don't backfill or set them until the carpentry is done. So you have one set post, and one loose post until the rails are in. I try to keep the distance between posts closer to six feet than eight. Then I mark and slot them one at a time.

If you're using pressure treated wood, be sure to use end-cut treatment on all of your cuts.

I hate doing split rail fences because people say they want that rustic look, then expect them to look like fine furniture. They are the current style though.

 

[Mousefield]

That is a great look in Mousefield Meadows. What is the origin of the name?MMH, do you have a design in mind that differs from the picture mousefield has posted. Looks like no post hole is needed for this type

We have a meadow and we have mice so the wife called our little place Mousefield Meadow. :laughing:

 

[Mousefield]

I was thinking about a split rail type where the posts get placed into the ground & have slots cut in them for the rails.

Lots of work on that type, cutting and drilling. I have seen them were two posts are put in the same hole and then the rails go in between the posts, one on top of the other. The posts and rails are often wired together. Sorry I don't have a pic of this but basically the rails are sandwiched between the posts. Means you just dig a bigger hole for the two posts

 

[MMH]

Lots of work on that type, cutting and drilling. I have seen them were two posts are put in the same hole and then the rails go in between the posts, one on top of the other. The posts and rails are often wired together. Sorry I don't have a pic of this but basically the rails are sandwiched between the posts. Means you just dig a bigger hole for the two posts

I was not planning on doing the cutting, but buying the posts w/ the slots in them. Commonly available for $9 a post or so.

 

[lhfarm]

I put in 100' of box store purchased 2 rail fence last summer. I used the method described by beenthere and it worked well. It is rustic looking, but that is what I wanted. I did put the post down 3'.

Digging the post holes is the only hard part of the process.

 

[picker77]

Here's about 450' of two-rail I put in a few years back. It replaced original similar fence but offset by 3' to one side of the old fence, used new posts but re-used all the 30 year old rails by cutting 6" off each end of the original 10' rails and spacing at 9' instead. 3' deep holes not really needed for this type fence, this is not livestock fencing, just red cedar "landscape" fence. 24-28" with a bit of gravel in the bottom for drainage and leveling post tops is plenty deep if posts are well tamped. All hand dug, post/rails fitted one hole at a time, no tractor needed. In fact, I think a tractor & PTO digger would just have been in the way and more trouble than it would be worth. This is nice pleasant summer upper-body exercise. Not that hard to do, I was 63 when I put this in. Forget concrete and deep holes, around here natural cedar posts will eventually rot out at ground level no matter how you set them, just plan on replacing the posts every 15 years or so. Or use that phony-looking white plastic fake stuff you see everywhere. :laughing:

 

[lakngulf]

Here's about 450' of two-rail I put in a few years back.

Good job Picker. That is a great looking fence. A nice view for a casual countryside ride.

 

[Mousefield]

I was not planning on doing the cutting, but buying the posts w/ the slots in them. Commonly available for $9 a post or so.

Well I learnt something today as I did not know you could buy fencing like that, with the notching already done. Guess the only tricky part from looking at the pics from picker77 is you have to make darn sure of the post placement.

 

[picker77]

Prices have gone up quite a bit in the the last 5 or 6 years, but here's what a local supplier in my area sells, others are fairly competitive. Cedar Split Rail Fence - Lumber 2 Home and Ranch, Oklahoma City. You generally only have to buy rails once, though, since except for a little eventual dry rot on the ends they are re-usable with new posts. I just trimmed the ends off on my old rails with a Sawzall and cut new tenons with a broad chisel, easy quick to do. In fact, any repair to a split rail fence is easy and quick to do, that's one of the things I like about them. Figure about $3 a foot for materials for a new two-rail fence at current prices, about a dollar a foot to replace just the posts. Get a few extra posts and rails when you order, because (a) you'll break a rail on rare occasion and (b) there's no guarantee the holes will be drilled in exactly the same places if you go down to buy a replacement post in the future. Replacement posts or rails will weather out in one season to the same natural grey as the existing fence. We had a neighbor's horse get into our place and walk through the fence once, had to replace a couple of rails but the posts held up just fine.

I personally prefer the look of 2-rail over 3-rail for some reason, which is good because it's cheaper. Tip: Measure from the ground to your crotch and set the posts so you can tip-toe over the top rail without having to put any weight on the rail. This worked for me (I'm 6'4") but didn't work so well for the wife, lol. Mowing is no problem, a quick run up and back with a weedeater once a month in the summer keeps it looking nice so the city tourists can ooh and aaah as they do their Sunday country drives.

 

[beenthere]

Well I learnt something today as I did not know you could buy fencing like that, with the notching already done. Guess the only tricky part from looking at the pics from picker77 is you have to make darn sure of the post placement.

Good observation Mousefield. And it is the reason for putting the next post hole in one at a time if a tight connection of the rails is desired.

picker77's fence shows he put in a lot of care and planning along with the hard work. Very neat and tidy fence to add to the attractive landscape. Makes for a warm feeling for everyone driving down that lane/road.

 

[Craig Clayton]

Want to put in a 300' split rail fence in. I was planning to dig about 2 feet deep w/ a PHD, tamp & put down some gravel. Drop post in and back fill w/ dirt. Don't really know how rocky the soil is (I'm in western PA, just east of Pittsburgh). Want to start next month (January). Other than putting up w/ the cold, are there any issues w/ doing this in the dead of winter?

Am I oversimplifying, or is that all that there is to it?

I am presently in the middle of building a 3 rail entrance at the front of the property. I have completed drilling out all 14 6"x6" PT timbers x 10' .Yes they are long but only 4' 8" are going in the ground and the rest has a fancy top. I have pics of the posts but they still in the camera. So I borrowed a pic of what the gate is going to look like. The first side rails are rough drilled out and laying on the bench. i fabed up rollers and used a 1 1/2 " spade bit to drill through using a bench top drill press. As the slots are on angles it was not a 90 degree job. The job went slow but the results are great. Before the ground froze up I cut and chipper ( 4 ) 30 ' trees and used the BH to remove 2 of the stumps.
Craig Clayton

 

[beenthere]

Craig
What is the pic showing?
Your fence?

 

[Craig Clayton]

To beenthere
The pic is of an English Estate Hook style wooden gate.
It all started when the Postal Service informed me that my mail box needed to be moved back 12". So I complied.
Then I looked at the gate entrance which lead to the afore mentioned comments. As the gate is laying on the assembly bench this is the best that I can do until spring.
I am planning on uniting 3 cultures using a Americian 3 Rail fence ,with a English Estate gate built by a Canadian.
This is representive of our border so it should work.
Craig Clayton

 

[Reverend Blair]

3' deep holes not really needed for this type fence, this is not livestock fencing, just red cedar "landscape" fence. 24-28" with a bit of gravel in the bottom for drainage and leveling post tops is plenty deep if posts are well tamped.

Up here the fence would shift the first spring. We've got heavy clay soil and a pretty brutal freeze/thaw cycle. Even a 3 foot white picket fence that will never have more stress than the occasional cat sitting on it gets 3 foot deep holes when I build it. I don't like warranty calls.

Forget concrete and deep holes, around here natural cedar posts will eventually rot out at ground level no matter how you set them, just plan on replacing the posts every 15 years or so. Or use that phony-looking white plastic fake stuff you see everywhere.

I love the plastic stuff. It's so neat and clean when you rip it out and haul it the dump so you can build a wooden fence.:thumbsup:

I try to use pressure treated wood whenever possible. I find the cedar we get here is so soft that it doesn't so much rot as abrade away. I've got pressure treated posts in my backyard that are 20 years old and in near-perfect condition, but I see cedar post fail regularly between 5 and 7 years.

All hand dug, post/rails fitted one hole at a time, no tractor needed. In fact, I think a tractor & PTO digger would just have been in the way and more trouble than it would be worth.

I do this for money. Power equipment is a must because you need to get done and move on to the next job, especially since you only have from May to October to make a living. I have a hand auger and some skinny shovels, but they rarely make it out of the back of the truck.

So I borrowed a pic of what the gate is going to look like. The first side rails are rough drilled out and laying on the bench.

That's a nice gate.