Rough start in cold weather on Bransons

[the fox 1940]

Looking at the schematic, the glow plugs are activated through a relay. You need to determine if all the plugs are in working order. A simple check with an Ohm meter will do. Is the plug open or not? Are all the plugs in the same resistance range, about 1 Ohm each cold? The problem may also be due to the plugs not being heated long enough, you may need to cycle the heat 2 or 3 times.

Good Morning.. I just bought a brand newe 3510i Branson on Thursday and I have been having the same problem as you have in starting the engine Cold.
Yes it stumbles and smokes until it gets all cyclinders running .
My question is this : When checking the Glow plug with the OHM meter
can you tell me how you did this? Did you take the Glow Plug out and do a
continuity check by just checking to see if the current ran through the plug?
or by putting the positive probe on the top of the plug and the other lead to a ground on the tractor. ? I know this sounds dumb, but I can most generally figure this stuff out after a fashion. I did take the Bus Bar off and clean it and put it back on but that never really fixed it the way I would like it to see it start.
If you could enlighten me as to how or what you did I would appreciate any help you could give me.
By the way the Backhoe has yet to come but I am going to buy one for it as I have about 7 acres of land here where I can use it. Had one on the Kioti.
Thanks for the input.
The Fox

 

[raeuber]

Good Morning.. I just bought a brand newe 3510i Branson on Thursday and I have been having the same problem as you have in starting the engine Cold.
Yes it stumbles and smokes until it gets all cyclinders running .
My question is this : When checking the Glow plug with the OHM meter
can you tell me how you did this? Did you take the Glow Plug out and do a
continuity check by just checking to see if the current ran through the plug?
or by putting the positive probe on the top of the plug and the other lead to a ground on the tractor. ? I know this sounds dumb, but I can most generally figure this stuff out after a fashion. I did take the Bus Bar off and clean it and put it back on but that never really fixed it the way I would like it to see it start.
If you could enlighten me as to how or what you did I would appreciate any help you could give me.
By the way the Backhoe has yet to come but I am going to buy one for it as I have about 7 acres of land here where I can use it. Had one on the Kioti.
Thanks for the input.
The Fox

Nice tractor, congratulations on the purchase. I wish I could afford a new tractor.
To the point: If you take the bus bar on top of the glow plugs off then you can use your ohm meter with one lead to a good ground (battery, engine mount bolt, other...) and with the other lead on the threads of the glow plug where you took off the bus bar. You should read between 1-2ohm (when the plugs are new) that value will slightly deteriate over time. But you should never read anything too high (i.e >1kohm) or open (infinate).
Hope this helps.

 

[the fox 1940]

Nice tractor, congratulations on the purchase. I wish I could afford a new tractor.
To the point: If you take the bus bar on top of the glow plugs off then you can use your ohm meter with one lead to a good ground (battery, engine mount bolt, other...) and with the other lead on the threads of the glow plug where you took off the bus bar. You should read between 1-2ohm (when the plugs are new) that value will slightly deteriate over time. But you should never read anything too high (i.e >1kohm) or open (infinate).
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info. I will do that and see what I come up with.
I have found that if I cycle the Glow Plugs about 4 times it will start up without stumbling and runs okay. It is -10 c here today ( 17 F ).. So we will see how it goes today.
I plowed snow yesterday with it and it seems to have the power to push stuff. I will be glad when I can get the backhoe on it.
The Fox

 

[polo1665]

Well we'll see how hard starting they are. 6 below here and I'll be on my way down to plow the drive. I'll give a report later.


Mark

 

[the fox 1940]

Well we'll see how hard starting they are. 6 below here and I'll be on my way down to plow the drive. I'll give a report later.
Mark

Have been asking some questions on the Cummin's Engines and it would seem as though anyone who has one or knows of one that they start hard in colder weather. I have a 3510i .. Even the dealer has admitted this to me.
I think Cummin's should look into the starting problem and make some changes.I had a Kioti 30 HST before this one and it would fire right up without all the stumbling and misfiring until it got going.
I think it is something we will have to live with unless Cummins changes something in the Engine Start Up Procedure. I see this morning my thermometer is reading - 15 C or +04 F. I usally turn the Glow Plugs on about 4 times before trying to start it. That seems to help a lot. I think the Glow Plugs are not hevy enough to put enough heat into the cyclinder to warm it up properly. I talked to a mechanic friend of mine out west and he said they are having the same problems with the 3 cyclinder Cummins Engines . They use them for running Generators. So I don't feel so bad now knowing this is built into other engines I guess. Once up and running you could not ask for a better running tractor.
My thoughts on it anyway..
The Fox

 

[polo1665]

Have been asking some questions on the Cummin's Engines and it would seem as though anyone who has one or knows of one that they start hard in colder weather. I have a 3510i .. Even the dealer has admitted this to me.
I think Cummin's should look into the starting problem and make some changes.I had a Kioti 30 HST before this one and it would fire right up without all the stumbling and misfiring until it got going.
I think it is something we will have to live with unless Cummins changes something in the Engine Start Up Procedure. I see this morning my thermometer is reading - 15 C or +04 F. I usally turn the Glow Plugs on about 4 times before trying to start it. That seems to help a lot. I think the Glow Plugs are not hevy enough to put enough heat into the cyclinder to warm it up properly. I talked to a mechanic friend of mine out west and he said they are having the same problems with the 3 cyclinder Cummins Engines . They use them for running Generators. So I don't feel so bad now knowing this is built into other engines I guess. Once up and running you could not ask for a better running tractor.
My thoughts on it anyway..
The Fox

I guess I misunderstood your problem. When you spoke of hard starting I assumed you had trouble starting your tractor. I gather now that you are referring to it running roughly once started (so no real starting problem?).

My Branson is a 3510 as well and it typically has no trouble starting with one full cycle of the glow plugs in cold weather. Yesterday it was 9 F and though the tractor is kept in an unheated garage which I am sure as warmer than 9 degrees, it had no trouble starting after one cycle of the glow plugs. Yes it did run roughly for about 5 seconds, then it was fine. I have no other experience to rate my tractor against, I guess I just always assumed that diesel engines don't like the cold weather due to fuel gelling issues.

Mark

 

[the fox 1940]

No I don't have any trouble with the tractor once it is running. Only at start up .. Like I said it stumbles until it gets all cyclinders firing. after that not a problem.
The Fox

 

[polo1665]

How long does it run rough (without cycling the glow plugs)?

 

[the fox 1940]

I have never tried to start the tractor without cycling the Glow Plugs. I
would think if I tried to start it without cyclying the GP's it probably would not even start.
When you do cycle the glow plugs I suppose it runs rough for about 15 to 20 seconds rough and then straightens out and runs great ..
The Fox.

 

[polo1665]

I have never tried to start the tractor without cycling the Glow Plugs. I
would think if I tried to start it without cyclying the GP's it probably would not even start.
When you do cycle the glow plugs I suppose it runs rough for about 15 to 20 seconds rough and then straightens out and runs great ..
The Fox.

I'm sorry, I meant to say "without cycling the glow plugs more than once".
The reason I asked was because I only cycle the glow plugs once, then start the tractor. It will run a little rough for 5 seconds or so and then straighten out. Your climate is much colder than mine though.

Are there other diesel engines out there that do not run a little rough on start up (when very cold)? I thought that was something that they all did.

Mark