School me on the Tombstone

[gabeancounter]

Another newbie here looking to become a "hack" weldor. I have a large supply of rusty metal- mainly 1/4" with a little 1/8 and 3/16.

The projects I would like to play with are making some additons to implements- weight racks, kick stands, gauge wheels etc. I am not interested in welding enough to go take classes at school etc (right now). Just being honest - would like to find a cheap tombstone and start leaving a trail of stuck rods:laughing:

I have read for hours already about mig versus arc, and it appears that I would be better off just getting a cheap tombstone for the projects I have in mind?

Questions:
Any DVD recommendations for learning to arc weld?

What is the thinnest metal or tubing that can be welded with an arc welder? Can you weld metal grate - like on trailers to the tubing for gates?

Is the DC welders that much better? If so what makes them better? I can find the AC super cheap, not so easy for the Ac DC rigs.

 

[Travelover]

Check out Youtube for welding instructional videos.

 

[gk stewart]

I learned how to weld on an AC machine, the are harder to maintain a steady arc. You can learn to weld with them, but your welding rod selection is more limited. Mild steel with mild steel electrodes with AC. DC is easier to weld with and it will work on most metals. Hope this helps. gk

 

[gabeancounter]

Youtube is so hard to tell if the guy knows what is doing or not. Seems that most waste about five min just getting there camera setup etc. Also these are only like 1-9 min so many times you have to watch the whole video to determine it useless? Any suggest vids on utube?

Can you help me understand "DC is easier to weld with"? Can you tell me the advantages of the DC only rods? Thanks

 

[gk stewart]

With practice you can weld thin metal, tubing and expanded metal. some plow metals have been hardened. the DC. machine and specific rods are used to make the weld hold. AC, the arc fluctuates back and forth, Alternating current. DC, more stable arc, direct current.

 

[gk stewart]

DC. will run any rod. AC are more limited. Most machines are either AC or AC/DC. if you are just going to weld mild steel , pipe, sheet metal, tubing you can do it with AC. you would use an E 6011 electrode. Most electrode boxes are labeled AC/DC or just AC. gk

 

[gabeancounter]

With practice you can weld thin metal, tubing and expanded metal. some plow metals have been hardened. the DC. machine and specific rods are used to make the weld hold. AC, the arc fluctuates back and forth, Alternating current. DC, more stable arc, direct current.

Thanks for the reply. That is starting to make sense. How often do you run the machine in DC? Prices seem to be low as $100 for the AC lincoln used and as much as $400 for the lincoln with ACDC. Found a Hobart stickmate for $250. Worth the extra $?

 

[richamor]

A good AC welder will do most anything a homeowner will need. A good DC will set you back twice as much or more. My Lincoln AC225 buzzbox was $125.00 and was basically new. Rod selection for it may be somewhat limited, but they can be easily found at Lowes and HD.

I would suggest you get someone to show you how to run a bead, set your welder up, and give you some pointers. It's like painting...it looks easy and anyone can do it. It's just being able to do it WELL that's the difference. And for that, you need someone to tell you what you doing right and what you're doing wrong. And you need practice.

Good luck.

 

[Highbeam]

Bah, you only need one or two types of rod to weld and they are very very available at home depot. 6011, 6013, 7018 any of those in the appropriate diameter and you're all set. Do not worry about rod availability with the AC machine.

The AC vs. DC thing is also nothing to worry about for your application. Yes, AC means the current alternates but it alternates 60 times per second just like your light bulb does. Do you see the lightbulb flickering? This is a non-issue. The big benefit of DC welding is that it is easier to weld "out of position" meaning overhead or on a vertical weld. The AC weld puddle tends to drip away if it can. This can be resolved with technique to some extent.

Get the used AC box and try it, you know you can always sell it for what you paid.

I own an old AC225.

I have been able to weld exhaust pipe with the stick welder, not pretty but in a pinch you can do it. Expanded steel for trailers, I've done lots of that, the trick is to start your puddle on the thicker base metal and bring the grate into the puddle.

Rusty 1/4" thick steel is perfect for a tombstone.

 

[gabeancounter]

lol ...Highbeam, that is what I want to hear!

How about those small cutting torch outfits they sell at the HD. Someone has a new one that fell off the truck for $200? How long do the little bottles last?
Lincoln Electric Port-A-Torch Kit - KH776 at The Home Depot

 

[Shield Arc]

The members of these tractor forums really like to talk about welding with AC. On the welding forums they'll run you out of town on a rail!:laughing:
A few months ago I decided to give it a try, other than Tig welding aluminum I couldn't remember the last time I welded with AC, if ever! Once I got passed the sound:confused2: I didn't see much difference from DC.

I ran a vertical up hill open root V-plate, and an overhead plate with 6011.

 

[gabeancounter]

Shield Arc,
I am sure my welds will look just like yours

Yep... most welders I speak with say you need this &*^&^ machine ($1500) and a bottle ($250), this hood ($300), etc etc. I could buy all new implements by the time I welded anything.

I doubt I will be welding overhead anytime soon. I remember watching a pipe fitter weld a joint overhead with a mirror.

I know nothing about welding but your welds look great to me!

 

[Shield Arc]

Shield Arc,
I am sure my welds will look just like yours

Sure why not? Next Tuesday it will be two whole weeks for my welding experience.


I'm kind of particular about my welding machines, but there is no reason for you to be that way, get the best deal you can, and go with that. I don't use those fancy auto hoods, good ol Huntsman works just fine for me, I'm use to flipping it down, like I said almost two whole weeks now.


If you do buy an AC only machine, do yourself a big favor, buy some Hobart 335A 6011, easiest rod you'll ever run!

 

[JB4310]

I got my first welder off the side of the road, Literally was in a garbage pile.

It was an old AC thunderbolt, similar specs to the tombstone I believe. cobbled it back to life, scavenged some leads. That thing lasted me 30 years, and welded everything a small contractor ever needed.

Just recently upgraded to an AC/DC thunderbolt. once you have DC you wont us AC except for certain apps that require it. I think AC will do you just fine for starters (maybe the next 30 years).

JB.

 

[digger2]

I weld everyday for a living,have been since 74.Now i do mostly TIG,and 99% stainless.Anyway.....for somebody just dinkin around out in the shop,AC is fine.I had a Lincoln Tombstone AC for years.My Dad had one since i could remember.Good economical machine,very dependable.Its no match for what i use at work but then that machine costs about 20 times what a tombstone costs.
As a matter of fact,out in my shop is a Lincoln AC/DC version of the old reliable tombstone.The only reason i got rid of my AC is because i wanted to hook up a TIG torch for use on steel,and you need DC for that...but thats another story.


The AC machines are fine for what you want to do,unless you WANT to spend more $$$............................Digger2

 

[2manyrocks]

In the big city of Athens, GA, you should be able to find a local welding class that's pretty cheap. Take the class. Then buy whatever welder suits you after you play around with the machines available to the class. :thumbsup:

 

[rankrank1]

I think an AC225 Lincoln (or equivalent AC only welder) will easily do all you plan for it. You were asking how thin they can weld: Lincoln rates the AC225 at 16 gauge (roughly 0.062 inches)and thicker metal. That said, it will take practice on the thin stuff to avoid burn through. AC power will run almost every common steel rod that DC will except for 6010 rod which is DC only. 6011 works very well on AC and performs similarly to 6010 so no problem just use the 6011 on the rusty steel. 6013, 7014, and 7018AC rods all work well too on AC power. Have not tried it yet, but I have read that Messer 80T AC is a dream rod for an AC power unit.

I have never used DC so I can not comment on it, but the experts claim DC is easier to use in out of position applications, and sometimes slightly easier to use on the thinner metals as you have the option of reversing the polarities with DC. That said, many projects have been built with AC only welders - it just takes a slightly different technique to get the job done. AC welders are darn near indestructable too and can be bought used so cheaply as they are much more common. Of course, if you find a deal on AC/DC then snatch it for the added capability of DC.

Also for a primitive backyard work shop (like mine) the AC arc welder can serve as more than just a welder and actually can become a true multi-purpose tool. How would you like to heat metal to bend it, loosen rusted nuts, braze, silver solder, and even improvise flame fill weld without owning an oxy/acetylene torch - never have to worry about storing explosive gasses, running out of gas when everywhere to get gas is closed, or pay the premium of simply buying the gas which is expensive. Add a twin carbon arc torch to your buzzbox arc welder and you can easily perform these functions by using cheap carbon rods which last a long time -the only real expense of using it is the electricity to feed the welder which is cheap compared to buying gas. A Twin carbon arc torch can be made for nearly free (or bought cheaply) and you have an intense flame needed to perform all these functions listed, but it WILL NOT cut metal so do not confuse a Twin carbon arc torch for the carbon gouging process which is totally different process. Twin carbon arc can actually burn up to 1000 degrees hotter than oxy acetleyne if desired. Believe it or not though, crude cutting of metal and piercing holes in metal can be done with the AC arc welder and the regular stinger by simply using 6011 rods (some soak the rods in water) and cranking up the amps to pierce holes and make crude cuts - instructions on how to do this can even be found in the Lincoln manual.

As you can see a simple AC buzzbox welder, can potentially add much more capability to a shop than just as a welding unit alone.

 

[grsthegreat]

My 18 YO Lincoln welder has ac, dc and dc reverse polarity.

I find the rev polarity with 7018 rod does a beautiful job for me.

 

[rmdaniels47]

Miller Electric's web site has some good free educational stuff on it. Not much "video" on "stick" welding, but good basic instruction booklets for free download. Their MIG and TIG sections have good short video's, etc.
Miller - Resources - Improving Your Skills
Lots of free booklet downloads on various weld processes, their materials "for sale" are good (but not much on "stick" weldiing).
Best is to find someone who will spend an hour "looking over your shoulder" to get you going on the basics.

 

[gabeancounter]

Shield Arc,
Not sure I am buying the 2 week thing. :laughing: Thanks for the advice on the rods.

Jb4310,
That is what keeps making me wonder if I should drop the extra $100-200 for a AC/DC machine. Is DC easier to learn? or would I be able to tell a difference being new?

Digger2,
Well, I was only 2 years old in 74, so I think you got a leg up on me.

2manyrocks,
I actually live in Madison about 40 min from Athens, but nobody knows where that is so I put Athens. With 3 boys and the constant schedule it just don't leave time to drive to school after work etc.

rankrank1
That is some great info! I will look into that. So how do you cut metal? I have a portaband, angle grinder etc. I would really like to not store gas bottles, but unsure the best way to cut a notch out of metal without some form of cutting torch.

rmdaniels47,
Thanks for the link and research. I will read up!