heard through the grapevine

[RoyJackson]

Roy,
I think alot of their market was for small contractors and some of these guys are hit the hardest in residential construction.

Good point!
The only question I have is, since Deere must recognize this recession will pass, should they drop a machine that was selling OK prior to the downturn...or, was it selling in adequate numbers before the economic downturn? (rhetorical question)

 

[arsenix2001]

Went into town today for some disc mower parts. The JD manager confirmed the info being discussed here.

According to him; Deere "marketing geniuses" have defined the market niche that the 110TLB falls into as the "Bobcat Line".

That is; more buyers in today's market are inclined to purchase both a Skid-steer AND a Mini-Ex instead of a rubber-tired TLB. He also mentioned that overall sales of TLB's is way down but that Deere was not planning to scale back on the "big Iron" TLB's.

Said that Mini-Ex's and excavator's in general are "taking over the world"!

AKfish

Id have to agree 100%. I started out with a tlb and quickly found it couldnt do half of what I needed excavation wise. Sold it and bought a mini and skid steer, best decision I had ever made. A tlb that size is great for a prop owner or maybe a pipe contractor (but why not just get a used 310) but for residential building construction, the manueverability and productivity of the mini/skid combo cant be beat. Just more trailer time occasionally, although i found you can move quite a bit of spoils with a 5 ton mini around a small site.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I suspect that the L45 has a better price point, and equal or better specs. I know the L39s I have looked at closely did not have the same build quality as the 110 TLB. Haven't looked at a L45 up close & personal, but the price alone could kill the 110 TLB.

I wonder if the ones in the field are going to become collector's items or orphans?

An l39 and L45 are the same machine. I believe the only differences are in hp and transmission type. But they're the same frame. I think they spec real close to a 110 but physically they're just a bit smaller.

Matt

 

[dfkrug]

Wow, that leaves Kubota and Yanmar in this small industrial tractor
niche. The L39 has been discontinued as expected.

The Yanmar CBL40 is a serious competitor. It even had a cameo
appearance in 2009's movie, Happy Tears, starring Rip Torn.

 

[bluechip]

The CBL40 is a nice machine, we have been renting one for 3 years with only one major repair to front differential, most likely due to 4wd operation on pavement by a renter. I understand that a lot of the components of the JD 110 are/were made by Yanmar so this could just be the result of the yanmar/deere split. I have heard that Cub Cadet Yanmar dealers may get a version of the CBL40. IT would seem odd to drop a machine for small contractors right when the recovery is taking hold (Yes It Is, I just know it has to be).

 

[AKfish]

An l39 and L45 are the same machine. I believe the only differences are in hp and transmission type. But they're the same frame. I think they spec real close to a 110 but physically they're just a bit smaller.

Matt

I wanted a larger machine than the L35 or the L39 when I was looking for a heavier-duty TLB than the JD 970 I owned at the time.

After sitting in the seat and working the controls - neither of the smaller Kubota's matched up to the JD 110 - IMO.

Never had the opportunity to check out the L48 - but from my impressions from folk's on the Kubota forum - it would have been a "neck-and-neck" competition with the 110. ('Course I've also since read of the frustration that some owner's have had with the gear ratios and the spread between the ranges with the transmission on the L48, too.)

Checked into the M59, briefly. Got a price quote... and spilled coffee down the front of my shirt!! :shocked: With all the bells and whistle's I wanted - it was within striking distance of a new JD 310! Ridiculous...

AKfish

 

[SixHoeBob]

Kubota needs to come out with a next generation L35 i.e. L35B to fill the gap between the B26 and L45. Deere needs to keep the 110 and come out with a 210. There is a place for CTLBs. A 310J is a very large machine.

 

[jenkinsph]

Kubota needs to come out with a next generation L35 i.e. L35B to fill the gap between the B26 and L45. Deere needs to keep the 110 and come out with a 210. There is a place for CTLBs. A 310J is a very large machine.

I have considered buying a 210LJ for landscape work, don't know if Deere has a hoe available for it though. Nice beefy machine for my uses.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

It just seems strange that kubota has mulitple models of tlb is there's no market for them. I think Deere is making a huge mistake here. I've been on the verge of buying a 110 for the last few years. I've waited to see them make improvements to it an finally nuy one, well guess what now I get to buy and orange tlb. Silly move.

Matt

 

[SixHoeBob]

I have considered buying a 210LJ for landscape work, don't know if Deere has a hoe available for it though. Nice beefy machine for my uses.

Without researching it, it looks like a 210LJ is the same tractor/loader as a 310J.
The 210 has a 3pt instead of the backhoe. My thinking is that there is a market for a 50-55hp TLB. The 210LJ is really to big for landscape work around houses, and on slopes. 40hp is plenty for a landscape tractor.

 

[AKfish]

Kubota needs to come out with a next generation L35 i.e. L35B to fill the gap between the B26 and L45. Deere needs to keep the 110 and come out with a 210. There is a place for CTLBs. A 310J is a very large machine.

Yup... x2 here.

If I were a small landscape contractor or small building contractor working remodels, additions, outbuildings, etc. would I really want to stick my neck out on both a SS and a mini-X with a sufficient trailer and truck...

Nope! Or a young start-up? Don't think so...

You could sink $150,000 into that rolling stock without going very big or very elaborate.

I'd guess that Kubota and Yanmar are licking their lips - small meal or not - *** dourve's are one step closer to a bigger meal!

AKfish

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Kubota needs to come out with a next generation L35 i.e. L35B to fill the gap between the B26 and L45. Deere needs to keep the 110 and come out with a 210. There is a place for CTLBs. A 310J is a very large machine.

The L39/L45 is the replacment to the L35. The gap between the two is a bit large... but how many models can you support in this segment?

I do wonder if Deere dropping the 110 is also rooted in their parting ways with Yanmar?

 

[Scooby074]

The L39/L45 is the replacment to the L35. The gap between the two is a bit large... but how many models can you support in this segment?

I do wonder if Deere dropping the 110 is also rooted in their parting ways with Yanmar?

Deere's parting ways with yanmar I didnt know that. Who's going to be making their CUT's? Are they taking them in house?

 

[Verticaltrx]

Yup... x2 here.

If I were a small landscape contractor or small building contractor working remodels, additions, outbuildings, etc. would I really want to stick my neck out on both a SS and a mini-X with a sufficient trailer and truck...

Nope! Or a young start-up? Don't think so...

You could sink $150,000 into that rolling stock without going very big or very elaborate.

I'd guess that Kubota and Yanmar are licking their lips - small meal or not - *** dourve's are one step closer to a bigger meal!

AKfish

I am a small contractor as you describe, and I agree fully. I have looked at the mini-ex/skid steer route and it is just to expensive to be profitable for someone who excavating is only a small part of the business. Not to mention the hassle of transporting two machines. My next purchase will be either a hoe for my B3200 or a B21/L35. I looked at the JD 110 a few years ago, seems like a good overall package but was a little larger than I wanted.

As someone else mentioned, it might be that it was kinda an in between size machine, overshadowed by the 310 and overpriced for the smaller contractor. I know a few small contractors around here (and at least a couple municipalities) that use small 30hp compact tractors with backhoes. Don't see many with machines the size of the 110, at that point most go straight for a full size TLB.

 

[BleedGreen]

I do wonder if Deere dropping the 110 is also rooted in their parting ways with Yanmar?

Yanmar never made the 110TLB, although it does have a Yanmar engine. The 110TLB was based off the Large Frame 4000 Series - 4510, 4610, 4710. While the backhoe assembly, subframe and loader were purpose built by Deere exclusively for the 110TLB. Other than the hood and additional hydraulics everything else was essentially a 4610.

And who says that the two are parting ways? And... what excatly does parting ways mean? The only all Yanmar built tractors that are left are the 2000 Series - and we have already lost the 2305. The New 1 Series are Deere built with Yanmar engines. The current 3E and 3x20 Series are Deere built with Yanmar engines. (the 1 Series and 3E Series also have Deere transmissions) While the 4x20 Series are Deere built with Deere engines. So again, what does parting ways mean? I dont see Deere using anything other than Yanmar engines in the smaller CUT machines anytime soon. Oops I almost forgot the venerable 3005 (790) and 4005 (990) which are still completely built by Yanmar for Deere.

 

[Duffster]

I do wonder if Deere dropping the 110 is also rooted in their parting ways with Yanmar?

Yanmar never made the 110TLB, although it does have a Yanmar engine. The 110TLB was based off the Large Frame 4000 Series - 4510, 4610, 4710. While the backhoe assembly, subframe and loader were purpose built by Deere exclusively for the 110TLB. Other than the hood and additional hydraulics everything else was essentially a 4610.

And who says that the two are parting ways? And... what excatly does parting ways mean? The only all Yanmar built tractors that are left are the 2000 Series - and we have already lost the 2305. The New 1 Series are Deere built with Yanmar engines. The current 3E and 3x20 Series are Deere built with Yanmar engines. (the 1 Series and 3E Series also have Deere transmissions) While the 4x20 Series are Deere built with Deere engines. So again, what does parting ways mean? I dont see Deere using anything other than Yanmar engines in the smaller CUT machines anytime soon. Oops I almost forgot the venerable 3005 (790) and 4005 (990) which are still completely built by Yanmar for Deere.

Thanks for setting the record straight. :thumbsup:

 

[Scooby074]

Thanks for the clarification BG.

 

[RoyJackson]

Oops I almost forgot the venerable 3005 (790) and 4005 (990) which are still completely built by Yanmar for Deere.

Personally, I doubt Deere stops buying engines and other components from Yanmar. Sourcing out complete tractors (like the 790/3005 and 990/4005) may end, I suppose...
For one thing, I don't see the Cub Cadet/Yanmar partnership being overly successful...and I don't see Yanmar setting up it's own dealership network in the US or Canada.

The 790/3005 and 990/4005 tractors have had incredibly long manufacturing lives. Both go back to the late 1980's (as 770 and 970, respectively), at least. I don't think Deere has sold any other tractors that long. Definitely no other compacts...
I'd hate to see either tractor go as they are both very simple and robust machines.

 

[AKfish]

Personally, I doubt Deere stops buying engines and other components from Yanmar. Sourcing out complete tractors (like the 790/3005 and 990/4005) may end, I suppose...
For one thing, I don't see the Cub Cadet/Yanmar partnership being overly successful...and I don't see Yanmar setting up it's own dealership network in the US or Canada.

The 790/3005 and 990/4005 tractors have had incredibly long manufacturing lives. Both go back to the late 1980's (as 770 and 970, respectively), at least. I don't think Deere has sold any other tractors that long. Definitely no other compacts...
I'd hate to see either tractor go as they are both very simple and robust machines.

Agreed. Great tractors.

The 110 is a great machine. Extremely rugged and versatile. Phenomenal "Swiss Army Knife" tractor!

However, there may be some "end-game" manuvering with Deere and Yanmar over the 110 and the entry of the CBL40 into the North American market.

Why would there be discussions about modifying the current 4000 series machines with a HD construction loader and hoe to compete in the marketplace against the "Bobcat Line" when the 110 is not (allegedly) competitive? Makes no sense...

Of course, I believe that the 110 was positioned to fit the market for small contractors, landscapers, landowners and start-up businesses that do not have the capital resources (or desire) to buy into the "Bobcat Line".

Others have opined that the 110 is too big and expensive for that market niche and that the 30hp TLB is really where the market "sweet spot" is at for those folk's.

Could be... I know that when I tried the smaller TLB's (I rented a B21.. IIRC) and looked over the L35 and L39 - I wanted more and was willing to spend a bit more to get it.

AKfish

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I was talking with a large upper midwest dealer the other day and asked him about this subject. He chuckled and told that 110's sat on the lot for way too long and that the housing contractors were buying them like hot cakes before the econo bust. But they haven't been able to give them away since. I believe this dealer has 10 stores in there market and this is the scenario at all of there dealerships. It seems to me that they could have tried to improve the product(like offering a cab maybe) to broaden the potential buyers. The 4000 are a great line but loader/hoe wise don't compare with the 110 and any attempts by Deere to claim otherwise are silly.

Matt