Setting wood fence posts

[trailbuilder]

We live in northern Michigan....up by lake Superior where frost depths are 3- 4 feet. I have not had good luck setting fence posts so they don't rot and stay stable. I have tried concrete from a ready mix truck and the forst grabs the edges of the top flange, I have tried portland and sand in the holes. I auger in the holes to 3 feet. Can you please advise what works well in this setting.

 

[BoFuller]

I would move to AZ.

Sorry, I have no clue. Someone should though.

 

[MicroPilot]

Rebuild the fence every spring? :confused2:

What do your neighbors do?

 

[ultrarunner]

What about this?

Rail Fencing - Woodguard

Comes with a 20 year warranty

 

[crash325]

Rebuild the fence every spring? :confused2:

What do your neighbors do?

Look at their fences and talk to them.

Just a thought. :2cents: Make sure your posts a well sealed, even if they are pressure treated, set as deep as possible, pack with a mixture of sand & dirt that is well packed.

 

[RickB]

We live in northern Michigan....up by lake Superior where frost depths are 3- 4 feet. I have not had good luck setting fence posts so they don't rot and stay stable. I have tried concrete from a ready mix truck and the forst grabs the edges of the top flange, I have tried portland and sand in the holes. I auger in the holes to 3 feet. Can you please advise what works well in this setting.

Rot has more to do with wood species and treatment than methods.
Frost goes deep here as well, a sound locust post set 3' in the ground and backfilled with native soil won't heave much at all unless the water table is high. A concrete collar around the post anywhere above frost level will jack the post out in short order.

 

[SpringHollow]

Use a hydraulic or pneumatic post pounder and go directly into the ground. Sinking into concrete is about the worst thing you can do because of rot and heave.

Ken

 

[Ken45101]

I can send you some of our yellow clay, it packs very well ;-)

I have heard that setting posts in concrete can cause them to rot faster by holding water. You need to make sure that the water can drain out the bottom (set the bottom in dirt and only use the concrete above the bottom but below the ground level? I'm not sure what the solution is.)

Is your problem heaving, or rotting?

Also, instead of the time and hassle of a concrete truck, you can just dump dry concrete mix in the hole and it will set over time from soil moisture.

Ken

 

[Gizmo2]

I am with RickB on this one, Up State NY here also. 25 year old fence http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/projects/146222d1258730980-board-fence-img_3949_1.jpg
Post number 5 http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/170379-fence-post-depth-question.html

What are you using for posts?

 

[Haoleguy]

Use a hydraulic or pneumatic post pounder and go directly into the ground. Sinking into concrete is about the worst thing you can do because of rot and heave.

Ken

+1 ........ Driving a post(locust or PT) to 42inches is the best you can do. Just got back from a fence building workshop in New Hampshire which included a demonstration of the King Hitter and Wheatheart drivers. Several VT and NH fence builders and farmers/ranchers on hand to confirm that driving posts keeps theirs put forever. I might suggest calling one of the knotted wire fence manufacturers(Bekaert or Stay-Tuff) as they would have a tech rep on hand to give specific info on successful residential and commercial posts set in your area...they have a vested interest to make sure their wire products perform well.

Links to
Bekaert ..... Bekaert Fence Products
Stay-Tuff ..... Stay Tuff provides a range of high tensile fixed knot wire fences to suit numerous applications

 

[20 20]

I agree with "don't use concrete" it will cause more issues IMO. I'd find a good source of locust and just pound them in the ground. When you have them set place a rock on a couple, when the rock finally erodes away then it will be time to change the post.

 

[sixdogs]

When we lived in Maine with very acid--low PH--soil, our (Northern White)cedar posts would rot out after 7 years, Here in Ohio, they would last 50 years.
The problem is they would rot at ground level, apparently where moisture combined with oxygen can do their thing. Below grade I was OK.

In solving this, I noticed the older telephone poles in the area had tar paper wrapped around the post at ground level and it did reduce the rot. Old timers confirmed that concept to me.
So I first wrapped a couple posts--at ground level--- in tar paper but it proved cumberson so I graduated to plastic and even put some posts in garbage bags before I planted in the hole.
Ten years later, I still had posts so I'd say it worked.

 

[RichZ]

Like others have said, the rotting is probably a function of the species of wood you use for the fence posts. Here in upstate New York, I use either locust or cedar. I've never heard of locust posts rotting around here, some can be 50 years old or more. I don't think you can go wrong with locust. I've had good luck with cedar as well. The only trouble with the locust is that it's so hard it can be hard to drive scews or pound nails into it, but the stuff never rots. I never put any posts in concrete. I don't think the concrete really helps it from heaving due to frost and it defintely speeds up rotting.

 

[Pete Judd]

We have old growth western red cedar posts around here in the wet PNW that are over a hundred years old. But I stress that these where split from large old growth. Hard to find that anymore. Most people now just use the steel posts, and I think that they look like ****, but will keep the stock in. I have had good luck with pressure treated 4x4's set in concrete but I taper the top of the pour above the ground to let the rain run away from the post. I also trim the tops at slight slant to let the rain run off. I doesn't take much. We have a shallow frost line, so only sink them 2 feet down, and get 90 inches of rain a year. I have some that I did this way 20 plus years ago, and they still look great.

Good luck.

 

[upinsmoke53020]

Instead of using sand or concrete, I use pea-stone. Seems to work much better than anything that "packs" because it constantly moves around to fill the gaps between post and ground. Pack sand in the hole and the post can still come loose. BTW I'm only a few hours south of you, very similar climate.

 

[Kyle241]

Up our way, I put white cedar posts directly into the ground, no cement. They last quite a while (going on over 12yrs+ a couple houses ago. I use my BH to dig and need it too with all the rocks around here.

 

[barkerlakebob]

My experience is to use treated fence posts ( sharpened of course)......drive into undisturbed earth.....here ( Manitoba Canada ) we have Red River gumbo...........they seem to last quite a while.........frost does not bother them.

The last ones I put in I used my BL70 ......stabilizers set and just down force on the front bucket puts them in quite nicely. They go in nice and strait.....premarked for depth........

good luck ..............:thumbsup: