Plasma Cutter Choices

[MossRoad]

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Seems the two plasma folks have ironed out their differences. Please continue the discussion on plasma cutting technology.

 

[deereman75]

ok thanks for the info Jim I am 14 and hopefuly getting a summer job this summer and I need a few other things for the shop before a plasma cutter. (chop saw, get the 220v air compressor wired up, the list goes on and on) but I might get the powermax 30 next summer. I am canadian and my first choice for tools is canadian made (I could count the number of those with 1 hand...) but my second choice is american made, and we sure have alot of that.
edit: I dont mind those discussions between you and mark, alot is learned from them

 

[Perplexed]

Seems the two plasma folks have ironed out their differences. Please continue the discussion on plasma cutting technology.

It's been most interesting even if my comment about having already chosen, and bought, a plasma cutter was lost. It's informative to see what Jim and Mark have to say about the latest trends in plasma cutter development.

 

[deereman75]

It's been most interesting even if my comment about having already chosen, and bought, a plasma cutter was lost. It's informative to see what Jim and Mark have to say about the latest trends in plasma cutter development.

which plasma cutter did you end up buying.

 

[MossRoad]

which plasma cutter did you end up buying.

Yes, please continue the discussion. I am also curious as to what you ended up with.

 

[Perplexed]

I didn't say originally which cutter I got, as the discussion had gotten pretty acrimonious at the time. I didn't want to fan the flames, so to speak. Now that things seem to have settled down, I can say that I got a Hypertherm Powermax 45. It was comparatively expensive, but after reading all the reviews and comments, I figure it's money worth spent. It's now sitting in my shop, awaiting my attention - when I have the time and it's not eleventy-billion degrees outside

 

[jimcolt]

perplexed,

Thank you for purchasing a Hypertherm system....from the 1200 employee-owners of Hypertherm. We will make sure you are satisfied with the machine for as long as you own it! Best regards, Jim

 

[MossRoad]

... and it's not eleventy-billion degrees outside

I'm pretty sure any plasma cutter would work at those temps. :laughing:

 

[toy]

I work for a company that is Global in sales. We have factories in 9 countries and a new factory in China with 70% of the products sold to the Chinese Market. Our Factory makes products to sell in the USA too made from lower cost labor with the same strict guidlines we use in our 3 US factories. The only difference between our Chinese, Mexican, Malaysian, Italian, American and Austrailian production plants is the cost of Labor. In the USA, The average hourly cost of assembly is $92.00 mostly because of Unions. In Malaysia it is $19.00, In Austrailia it is $22.00, In China it is $12.00.. It is the same quality product in all of the factories backed by Industry Leading Warranties.. All I am saying is that Just because it comes from over seas does not meat it is lessor quality. If you look at the components of Any of the supposed USA made Cutting and Welding Equipment you will see that it really is not Made in USA. Pull the covers and read the boards..See for your self.

When you mention the average hourly cost of assembly between these different countries, how many employees are they for each of these average hourly costs at each country? How many man hours are needed in each of these countries to produce a Machine? Just curious since you voluntarily shared the other information.

 

[Redneck in training]

When you mention the average hourly cost of assembly between these different countries, how many employees are they for each of these average hourly costs at each country? How many man hours are needed in each of these countries to produce a Machine? Just curious since you voluntarily shared the other information.

It seems to me that the $92 in the USA is way high. I spent some time in India (BTW India is more unionised that USA) and can tell you that in manufacturing jobs they will employ about 4 people for the same work performed by single US worker. This information is from a Cummins exec I met while flying to India few years back. He said that to make generators in India cost almost the same as in the US, but they are making them there because of India is the biggest market.
In construction it can be 20 to 1 but that is just my guess. Very few machines are used.

I am working in Australia currently. There is no doubt on my mind that Australians are paid better than US workers.

 

[jimcolt]

The keys to being able to build excellent product really has nothing to do with where a product is built.....or even the pay scale of the workers that are building the product (and $92 an hour is not that absurd....as it probably includes overhead benefits, retirement, etc.), rather....building a good competitive product is the result of excellent product design as well as an a good company infrastructure.

Good product design makes the product easy and quick to build without sacrificing product performance or reliability. A good company infrastructure ensures that the workers have a clean, comfortable, safe, friendly place to work....with adquate compensation and benefits to support the lifestyle in the region of the world that they reside. This formula, properly executed allows for excellent productivity, which is perhaps the most important word in producing competitive products anywhere in the world.

You don't get good productivity by cracking the whip.....you get it by treating production workers as an equal part of the company team.

There are many companies in the U.S. that follow the above principals....you will find that these companies are the ones that continue to excell and grow in the markets that they are in.....even with worldwide sales. The companies that do not subscribe to these principals often suffer in economic downturns and tend to farm much of their production to different parts of the world in an effort to cut costs.....which only tends to lower morale and productivity for their domestic workers.

I speak from my experiences with Hypertherm....a company that is employee owned (each employee has stock ownership as part of the benefits package...the stock grows when the company improves sales and performance in any way. The employees also share in annual profits through a profit sharing program). During the recent downturn....business levels dropped dramatically...yet not a single employee was laid off (there has never been a layoff in Hypertherm's history), rather....employees in jobs that were slow such as most production jobs..were transferred into other positions. As an example, Hypertherm management decided to increase spending on research and development during the slow period....a gamble during hard times to say the least. Production workers took on jobs monitoring around the clock engineering tests, as well as working as technicians which increased engineering productivity. The result...4 new products were introduced as the economy started to turn around. Our competitors in the industry....that had laid off as much as 10 percent of their workforces.....some of them farming out work to other areas of the world....had nothing new to offer.

The economic downturn, while certainly not something we would like to repeat...actually increased the level of satisfaction among Hypertherm employees...knowing that the company cared about the workers positions as much as the management positions actually created a boosting effect to that productivity word.

There really is no reason why U.S. companies cannot produce products as cost effectively and with quality that ranks among the best in the world. There is a rapidly growing trend for companies to be more progressive and be able to maintain productivity levels....as well as the domestic jobs that are vital to our local economies.

My two cents!


Jim Colt

 

[toy]

Jim colt I know to treat a man right you will get a better job out of him, that wasn't the reason for my asking the question. Just as an example [and I don't know this to be true just using it as an example] if it takes 2 workers in USA to equal $92 an hour then they would be making $46 an hour each. If it takes 4 workers in an hour to equal $12 an hour then each worker would be getting $3 an hour just as an example not that this is true just curious. Another thing how many man hours does it average out to to produce each machine. I may not be asking this right but just saying $92 an hour or $12 an hour don't tell us anything if the crew making $92 an hour can turn out one every 2 hours while the ones making $12 dollars an hour takes 50 hours to complete a machine, not that this is the actual truth but just so that we can get a real sense of how things are going. By the way I don't mean this to bash anyone and the workers in another country are people just like the workers in USA are people too, and I am not degrading the quality of the work from each worker either.

 

[toy]

Jim Colt the second paragraph in your response is kind of getting to what my reasoning for asking the question in my very first post but it don't actually answer it.

 

[jimcolt]

Toy,

I'm not sure what you wnat an answer for? Can you be specific?

If it is how many man hours it takes to build a plasma system....that would depend on the design of the system, the efficiency of the manufacturing operation, and the workers capability. So each different brand and model will have different amounts of labor hours as part of the manufacturing cost.

To reduce labor....you can either manufacture the system in an area of the world where labor costs are low.....or you can manufacture it in a very efficient facility with higher paid workers but less labor hours. If you have a system designed that is easy and quick to build, and you have an efficient facility....then you can be competitive on a world market.

Jim

 

[toy]

Jim Colt what I am wanting to know is the USA Union worker as productive as these foreign workers , and it is not to bash any worker regardless where they work. I would like to know if reject is higher or lower with union labor or foreign labor. I would also like to know what the hourly rate is for just one employee and how much of that hourly rate is received by the worker and how much of it is represented in benefits and how much goes for taxes.

 

[AHNC]

A few years ago I was in the market for a plasma machine. I'm regularly in the NH/VT area on business so I knocked on Hypertherms door and I believe it was Jim who was kind enough to show me around. My arrival was an imposition, but he was good to give me a brief tour. That place is like Candyland for those so inclined. I bought a 380 from the local welding supply folks and it is outstanding, but I do wish I had gone bigger. Great machine and I'm very pleased with its performance.:thumbsup: It is the operator that I get upset with.

 

[thallman]

I thought about buying this one:

2011 Lotos Pilot Arc Dual Voltage 50Amps Plasma Cutter Lotos LTP5000D

 

[mjncad]

I thought about buying this one:

2011 Lotos Pilot Arc Dual Voltage 50Amps Plasma Cutter Lotos LTP5000D

Never heard of them; but the price makes me want to walk away for fear of it being a re-badged Harbor Freight grade unit.

 

[crazyal]

A few years ago I was in the market for a plasma machine. I'm regularly in the NH/VT area on business so I knocked on Hypertherms door and I believe it was Jim who was kind enough to show me around. My arrival was an imposition, but he was good to give me a brief tour. That place is like Candyland for those so inclined. I bought a 380 from the local welding supply folks and it is outstanding, but I do wish I had gone bigger. Great machine and I'm very pleased with its performance.:thumbsup: It is the operator that I get upset with.

I really want to get down and go for a tour. Maybe even take a few pictures to post here for those who will never get to see their fab.

 

[crazyal]

I thought about buying this one:

2011 Lotos Pilot Arc Dual Voltage 50Amps Plasma Cutter Lotos LTP5000D

There's a couple of brands like this that have appeared. It looks like the first generation units had their problems and without knowing for sure it looks like all these new "built in China" brands were produced in the same factory or at least from the same design. Over the last few years each brand has worked on it's own design to set themselves apart.

Some here are against anything made in China while others see them as a way to get into the plasma cutter market on a limited budget. I don't own and have never seen a LOTOS but if you have questions ask Mark about the Everlast line, they are about the same price. Between reading what he says and those of us who have Everlast products hopefully you can make a choice if a "made in China" brand is right for you.