How is this not robbery?

[Leejohn]

Here is the mistake the shop made right up front. He went and looked at the flat rate to give you a price. He should of just said XXXX$ and then its up to you, not even said anything about the flat rate. Flat rate is for warranty work and just a guide line for a shop to make a est. And as for as shop rate at XX$, there is not a shop in the world that can count for every min, out of a working day. Just taking to you takes up time..
I also never heard of any small business man that only works 8 hours a day.
This thread made me think of a uncle of mine. He had a guy come out to clear some land. He sat and watched him for about a hour and went up and told the cat driver that he wasn't paying for him to back up. You can guess what hit the fan.

 

[aczlan]

When I was young enough to get my first car, the mechanic my family used explained to me that his shop billed by book rate regardless of the time it took to do the job. Sometimes it worked in his favor, sometimes not, but he told everyone up front that was his practice.

The shop I frequent works that way. Diagnostic stuff (smoke test the evap emissions system, pressure test the coolant system) is by the hour, but the procedures (replacing the radiator for example) is book rate. No more, no less. Sometimes they win (as this shop did with the wiper motor) and sometimes they lose.

I think if the shop is upfront with the billing practice and you agree you have not been robbed. If the shop says they charge the book rate and then charge you for the greater hours when the job takes longer then you have been robbed.

I agree.
Also, if you have done this job in an hour in the past and they quoted you 3 hours for the same job, why didn't you question it?

Aaron Z

 

[dave1949]

There is some difference between a quote and an estimate. JJ said he received an estimate, that is technically not the same as quoting a price. He knew it doesn't take three hours and perhaps thought he would not be charged for three hours.

The real problem here is customer expectation management. Getting into how the estimated price is determined only opens the door to dissatisfaction later on. Assuming the shop has to get 3 hrs. worth of pay to be profitable, it makes no sense to say anything else. That actually becomes a quoted price - this is what I will charge you.
Dave.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I am very fortunate to have an excellent mechanic that works out of his home garage...
I use him exclusively for repairs on my vehicles...
His overhead is very low and his rates reflect that...
I believe in dealers and they need to be supported but I also believe in my personal mechanic...
If I need something repaired I tell him and he tells me to bring it over at a specific time and he does the repair...
He is very good...

 

[beppington]

I'd be PO'd, too, if I saw what you saw. On the other hand, if the $135 sounded reasonable enough that you agreed to it, then you have a deal & it's a done deal. In this case, it worked out greatly in the shop's favor; I'm sure there are some deals that don't.

It would sure be nice if they'd refund all or even part of the money for the hours they didn't spend on it, but most just don't do that of course. Sure doesn't make it right, but that's the way of our modern world.

One thing they messed up was letting you see the process , that he was working on other cars & it didn't take anywhere near 3 hours. Maybe next time you could drop your vehicle off & go eat somewhere, do a little shopping, & then come back, never letting yourself know the ugly truth

One more thing: Maybe you got a hot-shot mechanic who's just really good at wiper motor replacements? Maybe another mechanic would've fumbled around for 2 or 3 hours, legitimately trying to fix it. Who knows.

 

[Elkins45]

If you want to talk about overcharging!...When was the last time you needed your Dentist or a lawyer.

Lawyers and dentists are like fire extinguishers and concealed handguns...most people don't need them very often, but when you do you REALLY need them!

It's like the apocryphal story of the specialist who charged $1000 to fix a customer's complicated machine. The specialist walked all around the machine, touching and listening in several points, then pulls out a hammer and whacks it in a certain spot: presto, it works again! When the customer asked what he did to deserve such a high fee for so little work, the guy wrote out an itemized bill that said:

Service call: $50
Knowing where to hit it: $950

 

[J_J]

Thanks for the many reply's to a well known situation.

No thanks to the people that think their way is always right and proper.

Don't even think that I am ignorant about the way people do business. I consider myself above avg in knowledge, and I have the right and the knowledge to question different practices.

Sure I could have shopped around and perhaps got a better price, but circumstances dictated otherwise.

You guys that do mechanic work have the advantage on us non mechanics, and retired mechanics, in the fact that you know when you are getting a gravy job, and you also know about those jobs you hate to do.

I supposed that some of you know about those jobs that take much longer time than book time, and you are having a bad day, and someone keeps taking your tools and not returning them,and you hate certain jobs.

If you can not do a job your self, you have to pay someone, and most people with a little knowledge know what is fair.

I would say that most garage/shops make a good living, with good help, and treating people fair.

I think I have a pretty good idea about how businesses operate. If a business is not profitable, you won't stay in that business very long.

I also understand the principle about , I've got it, you need it, so pay up.

Maybe robbery isn't a good word here but the process of taking your money and not working the time is not right at all.

Just because I accepted the bill, does not change my thoughts about the process.

I know you have all done it at one time or another. You didn't like the end results, and sometimes you accepted it because it was the only choice or the best choice, and other times you complained about it.

There will come a time where you will question just about every thing, and also ask about your senior discount.

This thread has put forth some interesting comments, from both sides of the fence, but what if my friend who just injured his hand ask me to put in a similar wiper motor in his truck, do you think he would not blink an eye and say do it.

I think that some of the mechanics , and they all know about book time ,would question every estimate with the knowledge that they have.

 

[Elkins45]

Thanks for the many reply's to a well known situation.

No thanks to the people that think their way is always right and proper.

Are you sure that second sentence doesn't describe you just a little bit? Because there a a whole lot of folks in this thread who have made legitimate points that aren't in agreement with you and you seem to have brushed them aside without much consideration.

Charging book rate for labor is a practice so long established that we might as well debate the building of the pyramids. No matter how you feel about the practice, it isn't going away.

I suspect that you are being just a little bit cranky just for the fun of it--not that there's anything wrong with that

 

[LD1]

WOW, what an interesting read.

Let me start by saying that I completely understad JJ's point of view here. It does seem like robbery to charge someone $45/hour and tell them it will take ~3 hours ($135), and then do it in one hour and still charge them for free.

But then again, that is why I dont like charging per/hour. It's like all the threads here on TBN about "what should I charge for bushhogging" or "what should I charge for ________". As a person who does tractor work on the side also, you just cannot win. Either the customer will think you are milking the clock to get more money, or you try to rush and screw yourself so the customer doesnt get upset.

Anytime I do a paying job, I look at it and know about how long it is going to take me in my head. (booktime). And I multiply whatever my rate is by that amount and give the customer a firm quote. But I DONT let them know my booktime OR hourly rate.

IMO, shops would be far better to do it this way.

JJ: would you have been as upset if they NEVER told you 3 hrs, or that there rate was $45/hr. Instead, Just give you a firm qoute for the job of $135 + part???

Like others said, they let you see the "process". IMO, there is NO need for a customer to know the "booktime" and there is no need for them to know the hourly shop rate. Just givem them a total qoute for the job. Take it or leave it. TO me, that is a fairer way to get the same end result without as many people questioning it.

I can say though, I dont have much experience with shops working on my vehichles. I had 2-years of automotive schooling. So there isnt much I cant fix/diagnose on my own:thumbsup: And I just flat-out dont like paying $100/hr or so to the shop, when I have the tools, ability, and know-how to do it on my own. Not to mention that many times, OEM parts are NOT the best in every case and ususaly 2x's the cost. Plus, I am picky about the way things are done too. If I do, I know its done right.

I know they arent going to change the "process", but IMO, and if I ever owned a shop, things would be qouted a flat price (based on the book time and hourly rate of course) but the customer doesnt NOT need to know those figures. Only Price X to do Job A. Take it or leave it:thumbsup:

 

[MMagis]

Thanks for the many reply's to a well known situation.

No thanks to the people that think their way is always right and proper.

Are you sure that second sentence doesn't describe you just a little bit? Because there a a whole lot of folks in this thread who have made legitimate points that aren't in agreement with you and you seem to have brushed them aside without much consideration.

My thoughts exactly.

J_J, I'm sure you know whatever business YOU were in, but clearly you don't understand the type of business in question. The only mistake the shop made was quoting you in hours instead of just a dollar amount. I'm still baffled why you think the mechanics hourly wage is relevant.