grsthegreat...get in here!

[mx842]

I figured that I had hyjacked bearcreep paul's thread enough and didn't want to stink up his thread with my problems even thought ours are about the same. We were talking about wire size requirements for different applications and soon as I said I too will be faced with the same situation as Paul's.

It's been raining for the past couple days and I haven't gotten around to measuring just how far my run will be but I'm thinking between 200' and 250'. I was at Lowes yesterday and they had some larger trailer service wire that can be direct buried or placed in conduit that was 4/0 4/0 2/0 4. The electric supply houses around here won't sell to the public and I don't have an electrician buddy that can or will buy the wire for me.

My question is would this cable be okay for 200 amps service, 250' away from the main service? I plan on an additional ground rod at the building. I probably will never need 200 amps out there but I have it to use so I may as well use it. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[deereman75]

I think 4 gauge is only rated to 100 amps, so you might need a bit heavier wire.

 

[mx842]

I think 4 gauge is only rated to 100 amps, so you might need a bit heavier wire.

It's not 4 gauge it's 4/0 and that is bigger, how much bigger I don't know I never was too good at figuring wire sizes but it looks to be at least twice the size of the 4 gauge the ground wire is 4 gauge though.

 

[LD1]

I am no electricial, but I am going to say it will probabally work.

4/0-4/0-2/0 URD is what out local electric company uses for 200A direct burial service. That is what I have at my residence and it is probabally ~200ft to the meter.

I also dont think you need 4-wire service. Again, I am no electricial, but I never did understand the 4-wires. The drop to my meter, and then to my house is only 3 wires:confused2: Plus, you are adding a ground rod at the site as well.

I also was wondering, what are you tying this 200A service into?? Another electric panel? or are you having the power company install another meter? or are you tying into your existing meter??

 

[mx842]

I am no electricial, but I am going to say it will probabally work.

4/0-4/0-2/0 URD is what out local electric company uses for 200A direct burial service. That is what I have at my residence and it is probabally ~200ft to the meter.

I also dont think you need 4-wire service. Again, I am no electricial, but I never did understand the 4-wires. The drop to my meter, and then to my house is only 3 wires:confused2: Plus, you are adding a ground rod at the site as well.

I also was wondering, what are you tying this 200A service into?? Another electric panel? or are you having the power company install another meter? or are you tying into your existing meter??

I am by no stretch of the imagination an electrician but I think the two large wires are hot leads, the next size down is the neutral path and the smaller wire is the ground wire which ties all the circuits, conduits, panel boxes, fixtures and other equipment together and provides a ground path from the pole, through all of this stuff mentioned and to the earth ground at your service or panel box.

This service will be to my new pole barn. I have 400 amp service coming to my house with two 200 amp boxes installed. I knew one day I would build a shop out back so I had a 400 amp service put in so I could split it and use half in the house and half in the shop. Right now I have half of the house circuits in one 200 amp box and half in the other. I was thinking about moving all the house circuits into one box and using the other box as a feed to the shop where I will install another 200 amp box to feed the barn/shop, If that makes any sense. I don't splane too well either.:laughing:

I didn't want a whole new meter because a third of your electric bill is the dumb fees, taxes and other assorted charges that are tacked on to each meter that is put into service. At my other shop the fees were more than the juice I used each month.

 

[grsthegreat]

I figured that I had hyjacked bearcreep paul's thread enough and didn't want to stink up his thread with my problems even thought ours are about the same. We were talking about wire size requirements for different applications and soon as I said I too will be faced with the same situation as Paul's.

It's been raining for the past couple days and I haven't gotten around to measuring just how far my run will be but I'm thinking between 200' and 250'. I was at Lowes yesterday and they had some larger trailer service wire that can be direct buried or placed in conduit that was 4/0 4/0 2/0 4. The electric supply houses around here won't sell to the public and I don't have an electrician buddy that can or will buy the wire for me.

My question is would this cable be okay for 200 amps service, 250' away from the main service? I plan on an additional ground rod at the building. I probably will never need 200 amps out there but I have it to use so I may as well use it. Thanks in advance for your help.

GRS THE GREAT... GET IN HERE


For a second i thought you were my wife and i was in trouble again :laughing: :laughing:

4/0 4/0 2/0 URD direct burial wire would be purfact for 200 amp service within 200/250 feet. Not an issue at all.

If you were to stretch it to 300 feet there gets to be a voltage drop issue.

Personally i always put my URD cable into conduit as aluminum wire has a tendency to rot away if the outside coating gets nicked....Ive had to replace many miles of the stuff over the years. But ive NEVER replaced one within conduit.

Now, IF the meter and main disconnect is located 200-250 feet away from the new building , you WILL have to run a separate ground wire. You only need to run a #6 XHHW aluminum wire. I simply unroll this one alongside my coiled up 4/0 runs.

If you want to run in conduit, best way is to lay out all the wire first (incl ground) , then simply slide 10-20 feet of conduit (2" schedule 40) over the wire going about 1/2 way . Glue pieces together as you assemble. Then work from the other direction doing the same. Then toss in trench.

The only time you wouldn't need the separate ground wire is if the meter is to be located on the new building and the wire was being run to the transformer.

Basically put, anything BEFORE the meter doesn't need a ground wire. Anything AFTER the meter does.

You will also need ground rods. In our area 100 amp subpanel needs 1 ground rod. 200 amp and over needs 2 ground rod at least 6 feet separation and connected together with a continuous #6 bare copper wire.

 

[grsthegreat]

I am by no stretch of the imagination an electrician but I think the two large wires are hot leads, the next size down is the neutral path and the smaller wire is the ground wire which ties all the circuits, conduits, panel boxes, fixtures and other equipment together and provides a ground path from the pole, through all of this stuff mentioned and to the earth ground at your service or panel box.

This service will be to my new pole barn. I have 400 amp service coming to my house with two 200 amp boxes installed. I knew one day I would build a shop out back so I had a 400 amp service put in so I could split it and use half in the house and half in the shop. Right now I have half of the house circuits in one 200 amp box and half in the other. I was thinking about moving all the house circuits into one box and using the other box as a feed to the shop where I will install another 200 amp box to feed the barn/shop, If that makes any sense. I don't splane too well either.:laughing:

I didn't want a whole new meter because a third of your electric bill is the dumb fees, taxes and other assorted charges that are tacked on to each meter that is put into service. At my other shop the fees were more than the juice I used each month.

you seam to have it all worked out. If your shop needs all 200 amps then you can move the other stuff over. However if you dont really think you need 200 amps at the shop, you can leave some lower amperage stuff on the existing 200 amp panel and simply feed the new shop right out of the bottom of the existing panel with a set of add on lugs. The shop will still have 200 available amps, but can have some added draw to it. Id leave things on it that wouldn't draw too much amps.

I didnt want a separate meter for my shop either, there was a minimum $40/month charge whether i used power from there or not. Alot of months i probably only use $5 worth of electricity out there. It doesn't take many $40 months to pay for the additional wire and larger original panel.

 

[mx842]

GRS THE GREAT... GET IN HERE


For a second i thought you were my wife and i was in trouble again :laughing: :laughing:

4/0 4/0 2/0 URD direct burial wire would be purfact for 200 amp service within 200/250 feet. Not an issue at all.

If you were to stretch it to 300 feet there gets to be a voltage drop issue.

Personally i always put my URD cable into conduit as aluminum wire has a tendency to rot away if the outside coating gets nicked....Ive had to replace many miles of the stuff over the years. But ive NEVER replaced one within conduit.

Now, IF the meter and main disconnect is located 200-250 feet away from the new building , you WILL have to run a separate ground wire. You only need to run a #6 XHHW aluminum wire. I simply unroll this one alongside my coiled up 4/0 runs.

If you want to run in conduit, best way is to lay out all the wire first (incl ground) , then simply slide 10-20 feet of conduit (2" schedule 40) over the wire going about 1/2 way . Glue pieces together as you assemble. Then work from the other direction doing the same. Then toss in trench.

The only time you wouldn't need the separate ground wire is if the meter is to be located on the new building and the wire was being run to the transformer.

Basically put, anything BEFORE the meter doesn't need a ground wire. Anything AFTER the meter does.

You will also need ground rods. In our area 100 amp subpanel needs 1 ground rod. 200 amp and over needs 2 ground rod at least 6 feet separation and connected together with a continuous #6 bare copper wire.

Thanks! do you mean I need an additional ground wire to the one that is already in the bundle? This wire bundle already has a #4 ground wire so are you saying I need an additional ground wire to this?

And thanks for the note about the additional ground rod needed for the 200 amp service. I would have never thought to ask if just one was enough. Also, about ground rods do they have to be special ground rod only medal or can something else be used. The reason I ask is because the ground rod that the electric company put in when they installed the service looks like a piece of 1 1/2 galvanized pipe driven into the ground.

OH! and I didn't mean to scare you like that. I should know better than yell out like that because I too fear the tiger at our house. I fear no man but can be brought to my knees easily from just a stern look or a threat that the fudge and ice cream could be cut off if I don't clean up my act.LOL

 

[grsthegreat]

Thanks! do you mean I need an additional ground wire to the one that is already in the bundle? This wire bundle already has a #4 ground wire so are you saying I need an additional ground wire to this?

And thanks for the note about the additional ground rod needed for the 200 amp service. I would have never thought to ask if just one was enough. Also, about ground rods do they have to be special ground rod only medal or can something else be used. The reason I ask is because the ground rod that the electric company put in when they installed the service looks like a piece of 1 1/2 galvanized pipe driven into the ground.

OH! and I didn't mean to scare you like that. I should know better than yell out like that because I too fear the tiger at our house. I fear no man but can be brought to my knees easily from just a stern look or a threat that the fudge and ice cream could be cut off if I don't clean up my act.LOL

Sorry, i did not see that there was already a ground wire in the bundle. NO you would not need the additional wire.

Im use to seeing the twisted wire bundles here in Idaho WITHOUT the ground wire. Were always behind the times here.

No, it doesn't HAVE to be an official ground rod. You can use a galv pipe no smaller than 3/4" but they need to be at minimum 8 feet in length. The reason i use official ground rods is cause i can drive them easily into the ground with a hand held post pounder. Not sure how hard it would be to drive a piece of galv pipe. If you use pipe, it has to be galv coated...not gas pipe..

NO... not the fudge. Oh the humanity.

 

[mx842]

Sorry, i did not see that there was already a ground wire in the bundle. NO you would not need the additional wire.

Im use to seeing the twisted wire bundles here in Idaho WITHOUT the ground wire. Were always behind the times here.

No, it doesn't HAVE to be an official ground rod. You can use a galv pipe no smaller than 3/4" but they need to be at minimum 8 feet in length. The reason i use official ground rods is cause i can drive them easily into the ground with a hand held post pounder. Not sure how hard it would be to drive a piece of galv pipe. If you use pipe, it has to be galv coated...not gas pipe..

NO... not the fudge. Oh the humanity.

Cool! Hopefully today it will clear up a little and I can get out and do some measuring. This wire I found at Lowes was $2.65 a foot so I guess I will use that, $600 is way better than $1600.00 that's for sure.

Wow 8', I think I'll go the ground rod route. It's hard enough to get one of those small rods down 5' in this dirt I would need a pile driver to get the pipe I have down to 8'.:laughing:

Thanks for your input you have been most helpful.