Chains instead of a top link for bush hog?

[beppington]

When mowing thru a dip the chain will relax & allow the hog's tail to rise, following the dip nicely. So, in a dip a chain shouldn't be needed since it's doing nothing.

When mowing over a hill/ peak, the chain will hold the hog's tail up in the air, causing it to not cut some material, not as short anyway. So ... on a peak a chain shouldn't be needed either.

Seems to me that Eddie's right that a chain shouldn't be needed at all ... except to raise the tail of the hog off the ground for traveling.

What are we missing?

 

[aczlan]

Seems to me that Eddie's right that a chain shouldn't be needed at all ... except to raise the tail of the hog off the ground for traveling.
What are we missing?

I have had to use it to pick up the whole hog to get it off of the rock/log/dirtpile that I didn't see which is now beating the snot out of the blades.
Also, if you are backing into a brush pile/thicket it is nice to raise the whole hog and lower it slowly to chop up the brush a little at a time. Almost impossible to do that without lifting the tailwheel.

Aaron Z

 

[Rockgod]

When mowing thru a dip the chain will relax & allow the hog's tail to rise, following the dip nicely. So, in a dip a chain shouldn't be needed since it's doing nothing.

When mowing over a hill/ peak, the chain will hold the hog's tail up in the air, causing it to not cut some material, not as short anyway. So ... on a peak a chain shouldn't be needed either.

Seems to me that Eddie's right that a chain shouldn't be needed at all ... except to raise the tail of the hog off the ground for traveling.

What are we missing?

I just opened up a thread on bending the lift arms on my RC. Wonder if chains would have prevented this? Allowing for a little more movement.

 

[TripleR]

The slotted link helps follow the contours of our property and the hydraulic top-link helps also.

We also use a pull type, but without the ability to adjust height via hydraulics, we get scalping.

 

[LD1]

I just opened up a thread on bending the lift arms on my RC. Wonder if chains would have prevented this? Allowing for a little more movement.

I just looked at your pics in your other thread, And I do think chains would have helped. The chains would ahve allowed JUST the tailwheel to float up over the obstruction, instead of trying to force the WHOLE cutter to raise up over it, which can sometimes create a bind.

 

[beppington]

Also, if you are backing into a brush pile/thicket it is nice to raise the whole hog and lower it slowly to chop up the brush a little at a time. Almost impossible to do that without lifting the tailwheel.

Holy cow! I had forgotten that I do the same thing sometimes - Lift it, back into a spot & slowly lower it. Good for when I don't know what all is in there, or to try to cut something borderline too big.

 

[JohnK454]

Another item to consider when not running a solid top-link - the PTO shaft.

Excessive shaft angles are very hard on U-joints. Dealt with this on Jeep lifted CJs.

Also want to make sure the PTO shaft can compress/extend enough to compensate for the range of travel.

Also - if using NO toplink/chain, going over a sharp ridge can potentially cause the spinning PTO shaft to hit the leading edge of the mower deck and perhaps bending it. If you forget and try to lift the mower with the 3pt, the same effect can occur.

 

[RoyJackson]

most new mowers have a flex link or slotted connection point to allow for that.

soundguy

Yep, I have the flex link (I'm assuming you mean that "U" shaped bracket at the implement's upper connection), but even they can be a limiting factor at an abrupt transition such as the top and bottom of a ditch.
BTW, I use a standard upper link piece...I'm just adding one limitation of those links used with a flex or slotted implement link.

 

[greg_g]

Wonder if chains would have prevented this? Allowing for a little more movement.

Maybe, but it's not the technically correct solution. What I saw in your photos is another case that could have been avoided with a floating toplink bracket (FTB). Either your model didn't come with one, or it got lost/thrown away over the years. When the top of the A-frame is permitted to float, there is never any pushing force on the lift straps. Or the A-frame itself for that matter. When set properly, a FTB compensates for all reasonable rise and fall of the tail wheel. All the force that destroyed your A-frame (and bends other folks lift straps) is negated by the pivoting of the FTB.

The operation of a FTB is simple. For transport of the mower, tighten the toplink to its shortest possible length. This gives your tractor the best lift angle to pick up and carry. Once you get to where you're going to mow, lengthen the toplink enough to move the FTB about 90 degrees. Set the mowing height with the lift arms, and mow away. When the nose of the tractor rises and falls, the pivoting FTB compensate - keeping the mower level (and the tail wheel on the ground).

//greg//

 

[EddieWalker]

It simply just allows the mower to follow the terrain better.

With a ridgid setup, the mower cannot change angles. It follows the angle of the tractor.

With chains, the angle of the mower can move independently from the tractor. Allowing the mower to maintain a more even cut on rolling terrain.

I really can explain it any better than that. Its just one of them things that unless you have never used a mower with chains, it is hard to understand.

I'm not sure where a ridgid setup came into play. Did older top links not have a way to loosen them? I run with my very loose, but tight enough that I can still lift my mower. With it loose, my mower follows the contour of the ground just like the chains do.

What I'm confused about is why replace the top link or anything else with a chain that doesn't adjust or tighten up as easily at the top link does?

Eddie

 

[LD1]

I'm not sure where a ridgid setup came into play. Did older top links not have a way to loosen them? I run with my very loose, but tight enough that I can still lift my mower. With it loose, my mower follows the contour of the ground just like the chains do.

What I'm confused about is why replace the top link or anything else with a chain that doesn't adjust or tighten up as easily at the top link does?

Eddie

IS your setup the one with the U-shaped bracket like pictured earler.

The ridgid set-up I am talking about (and like on my 306) is a set-up like a back blade would have. And like the one Rcokgod mangled. THOSE do not allow the mower fo follow the contour like a chain or u-link would

 

[EddieWalker]

The U link is where I'm confused. I didn't realize that everyone didn't have one of those.

I'm still not a fan of chains, but can see where they offer more flex then not haveing the U link.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[LD1]

The U link is where I'm confused. I didn't realize that everyone didn't have one of those.

I'm still not a fan of chains, but can see where they offer more flex then not haveing the U link.

Thanks,
Eddie

Yep, I have see a lot of cutters without that u-peice and also without chains. THUS the "ridgid" setup I was refering to. Which does NOT follow the terrain at all.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep, I have the flex link (I'm assuming you mean that "U" shaped bracket at the implement's upper connection), but even they can be a limiting factor at an abrupt transition such as the top and bottom of a ditch.
BTW, I use a standard upper link piece...I'm just adding one limitation of those links used with a flex or slotted implement link.

i hear ya.. however I don't make a practice of nose diving into a ditch and mowing a 45' down and 45' up in a 5-6' wide trough.. .. which it sounds like some people are wanting to do.. or planning to do

soundguy

 

[MikeD74T]

i hear ya.. however I don't make a practice of nose diving into a ditch and mowing a 45' down and 45' up in a 5-6' wide trough.. .. which it sounds like some people are wanting to do.. or planning to do soundguy

I can understand your position but my 38 acres in New Hampshire has more elevation change than 95% of the entire state of Florida.

I like Electrarc's chain on the backstays. I have rigid backstays and the U shaped piece on the A frame doesn't have quite enough range for everywhere I mow. I'm thinking that slotting the backstays for about 6" of travel might be just the ticket.
Soundguy, You've got the most mowing experience that I know of on TBN. Have you actually ever had a mower kick up enough to be dangerous to the operator? MikeD74T

 

[aczlan]

Soundguy, You've got the most mowing experience that I know of on TBN. Have you actually ever had a mower kick up enough to be dangerous to the operator? MikeD74T

I suspect that Farmswithjunk might have more mowing time (although rumor has it that as one of those highfalutin money grubbing business owners, he doesn't get much seat time anymore )

Aaron Z

 

[MikeD74T]

I suspect that Farmswithjunk might have more mowing time (although rumor has it that as one of those highfalutin money grubbing business owners, he doesn't get much seat time anymore )Aaron Z

I'd be happy to hear from Farmswithjunk or any others as well as long as it's experience not opinion. MikeD74t

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'd be happy to hear from Farmswithjunk or any others as well as long as it's experience not opinion. MikeD74t

OK...Here it is....You asked for it!

The tractor/mowers I use in the commercial end are mostly pull type bat wings. However, I do have a couple smaller mounted mowers we use essentially as "giant weed eaters" in confined areas. They have hydraulic top links, and what i like to refer to as "toggle links" (flexible top link mounting points) Their configuration allows great flexibility. Mow where we mow and you really need that.....Getting down into ditches, around culverts, and in some VERY awkward spots, I've seem mowers 45 degrees up or down from level with the tractor. No, I don't want that on a regular basis, but it happens...

Now, on to what I use "at home". My property is partially level hay fields, and a good bit of hilly, choppy, steep creek banks, woods, and roadside ditches. By this point in my life, I've had all the fun I want with using weed eaters and such. I mow EVERY blade of grass/weeds I can with a mounted rotary cutter. Most people would have a panic attack watching me mow. I've put tractors into positions where the faint of heart wouldn't dare. To achieve that end, I've ran without a top link at all on occasion. I've used chain top links, and I've replaced sections of the rear struts (from rear of mower deck to top link mast structure) with chain to allow the top link "A Frame" to fold back when needed. About 50% of the mowing I do on my place (other than the hay fields) requires me to adjust the mower to where the tail wheel is still on the ground when the 3-point hitch is all the way raised.

For the record, when using NO top link OR when using a chain as a top link, I've NEVER seen the mower "kick up" when the leading edge hit an obstacle. That "theory" is just that....a theory.....One that just doesn't seem to exist in real world FACT. Anything is "possible", but I'm not changing my way of doing things based on a theory that is seemingly unheard of in real life.

The single greatest "safety device" that can be installed on a tractor is a SAFE, EXPERIENCED, REASONABLE OPERATOR. Without such, NO device added or left off will prevent accidents. WITH such, most would truly be amazed at what you can do with a tractor and mower.....

And yes, I'm basing my opinion of tens of thousands of hours of real world application.....not just a few hours in the seat and a theory.

 

[Soundguy]

I can understand your position but my 38 acres in New Hampshire has more elevation change than 95% of the entire state of Florida.

I think I'd get a semi-mount mower with hyd tailwheel then.. if it is that up and down..

I like Electrarc's chain on the backstays. I have rigid backstays and the U shaped piece on the A frame doesn't have quite enough range for everywhere I mow. I'm thinking that slotting the backstays for about 6" of travel might be just the ticket.
Soundguy, You've got the most mowing experience that I know of on TBN. Have you actually ever had a mower kick up enough to be dangerous to the operator? MikeD74T

I think the other poster nailed it. FWJ has a mowing business.. lots more mowers and time under him than I do.

I've never had a mower kick up on me, but then I use a toplink too, and try not to hit too many stumps.. . my mowers all have flex links on them, or i'm using a semi-mount, or a pull type batwing. ( ant mounds? now baby.. I can mow some ant mounds! ants fear me.. )

I have re-welded a deck for a buddy that had a mower near shell out from hitting a stump. bowed the front of the deck in, eventually ripped one side lift pin off the a-frame, and bent the pto shaft as the mower DID kick up, however to my knowledge it did not kick up and fold completely over, IE.. hitting hte operator or back of the tractor.. flipped up enough to eat the pto shaft, bend the afram.. or torque it, and then it all gave loose when a 3pt pin went. it was a beater mower so we used a jack and chain and got the front un bowed.. thru another pto shaft on it from a donor, used a long bar and re bent the a-frame, did some welding, then he cleaned the seat on the trsctor real well and off he went

so no.. never had one flip up and over.. obviously have seen one that did rise up and bend a few things.. etc. I told my buddy to stop mowing stumps..

soundguy

 

[LD1]

OK...Here it is....You asked for it!

The tractor/mowers I use in the commercial end are mostly pull type bat wings. However, I do have a couple smaller mounted mowers we use essentially as "giant weed eaters" in confined areas. They have hydraulic top links, and what i like to refer to as "toggle links" (flexible top link mounting points) Their configuration allows great flexibility. Mow where we mow and you really need that.....Getting down into ditches, around culverts, and in some VERY awkward spots, I've seem mowers 45 degrees up or down from level with the tractor. No, I don't want that on a regular basis, but it happens...

Now, on to what I use "at home". My property is partially level hay fields, and a good bit of hilly, choppy, steep creek banks, woods, and roadside ditches. By this point in my life, I've had all the fun I want with using weed eaters and such. I mow EVERY blade of grass/weeds I can with a mounted rotary cutter. Most people would have a panic attack watching me mow. I've put tractors into positions where the faint of heart wouldn't dare. To achieve that end, I've ran without a top link at all on occasion. I've used chain top links, and I've replaced sections of the rear struts (from rear of mower deck to top link mast structure) with chain to allow the top link "A Frame" to fold back when needed. About 50% of the mowing I do on my place (other than the hay fields) requires me to adjust the mower to where the tail wheel is still on the ground when the 3-point hitch is all the way raised.

For the record, when using NO top link OR when using a chain as a top link, I've NEVER seen the mower "kick up" when the leading edge hit an obstacle. That "theory" is just that....a theory.....One that just doesn't seem to exist in real world FACT. Anything is "possible", but I'm not changing my way of doing things based on a theory that is seemingly unheard of in real life.

The single greatest "safety device" that can be installed on a tractor is a SAFE, EXPERIENCED, REASONABLE OPERATOR. Without such, NO device added or left off will prevent accidents. WITH such, most would truly be amazed at what you can do with a tractor and mower.....

And yes, I'm basing my opinion of tens of thousands of hours of real world application.....not just a few hours in the seat and a theory.

GREAT POST :thumbsup: