best 9mm?

[Soundguy]

If anyone does get a Glock and they live in a bad part of a city, they may want to add Homeboy Sights:

Be the 1st

now that's just too funny!

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

That's a very urban viewpoint. I bought my first handgun because I'm a mushroom hunter. About the third time I had to dispatch a wounded deer with a dull mushroom knife because some bozo was too lazy to track an animal after he shot it, I decided I needed to carry a handgun. I settled on a S&W 686, because it is stainless and it doesn't hurt it to be hauled through underbrush on a rainy day. I also carry it when the dogs let me know there is a cougar or bear frequenting my property. A wheelgun is much more sensible when you are going to get wet, muddy and covered in leaves and needles. Concealing a large frame revolver is silly, so I just strap on a sidearm holster, which doesn't require any permits in my state.

Very rarely do I haul a handgun into town with me.

have to be carefull around here.. depending on the season, you can't tote a handgun into the forest without a hunting license, even if you only intend to dispatch wounded wildlife.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

If that stance was any good, you would see professional shooters using it. In fact, it's just crap. Unless that guy has eyeballs in his chin, he isn't using the sights, and chances are he will miss what he thinks he is shooting at. Anyone who has done any shooting at all knows how difficult it is to shoot accurately with a handgun, even using the sights.

To coin a phrase. .. "that's very NON urban sounding talk"

I don't know about others.. but when shooting something 5-10' away.. I'm not even looking at my sights... I'm 'sighting' down my arm/hand/fingers.

IE.. I don't need a sight to 'point' my arm at a target 8' away.. which according to crime specs.. most issues we see of attacks and shootings, the perp is literally that close, IE.. les sthan 20' which by the way.. a perp with a knife drawn, 10' away from you, is likely gonna stick you before you draw a concealed arm.. etc.

one of our other tests when we got our ccw training, was to shoot at targets 20, 10, and 6' away, no sights, just point and click, nad also the fast 'empty your mag' at 6' deal.

had to have all shots on paper to pass. the 20' and 10' we didn't do the fast shots.. still had to have shots on paper at 20' and 10' using no sights.. simply too dangerous to have to focus on sights when something is colse enough to point your finger at them.

kinda different when you are shooting a drg crazed attacker 6' away, vs a deer with a hole blown in it, laying on the ground motionless waiting to die. on the deer, you can take your time, get into the triangle stance, aim, use sights and go for the clean no pain 1 shot dispatch... for the drug crazed attacker that wants the 18$ in your pocket to get his next meth fix, and is willing to kill you and your family for it, well.. you don't have time to take the triangle stance, aim, get comfortable and shoot. you whip it out, point your arm at his chest and start squeezing off rounds till he drops and the threat of death or bodily harm abates.. then of course you dial 911...

soundguy

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Stick a gun out at me like that when I'm 6' away and I'll duck under it and take it away from you. If you were doing point-and-shoot close range exercises, your instructor had you shooting from the waist with the gun held close at your side. That homeboy hold is still a pile of crap.

 

[RoyJackson]

Stick a gun out at me like that when I'm 6' away and I'll duck under it and take it away from you. If you were doing point-and-shoot close range exercises, your instructor had you shooting from the waist with the gun held close at your side. That homeboy hold is still a pile of crap.

Depends on how fast you are...I think the bullet would travel faster then you.
However, I do think a lot of people would hesitate ever so slightly which might...might...give an assailant a bit of an advantage. The mindset of the assailant and defender are most important....and no one knows how they're going to react until they're involved.

I did some internet research on gun fights a while back (couple years, at least). Most are within 10 feet of one another, 5-10 rounds are expended and the fight is over within seconds

 

[Soundguy]

Stick a gun out at me like that when I'm 6' away and I'll duck under it and take it away from you. If you were doing point-and-shoot close range exercises, your instructor had you shooting from the waist with the gun held close at your side. That homeboy hold is still a pile of crap.

you'd likely need the hospital after trying that.

I don't do the stupid stance like they do in the movies with arm at full extension walking around with the darn thing 3' in front of you as you walk around corners, and the crook can see 2' of arm and a gun before you see him.

with left arm in an under supporting hold, and right arm angled in and out, my firearms is no more than a foot away from my chest, shooting straight out if needed and easilly adjustedable by hand swivel of right hand, gun pivoting on left 'platform hand' in about an 80' arc.

again.. better dial 911 BEFORE you do that funny duck and attack me maneuver, cause that just means the area I have to shoot you from top profile is mostly head.. and well.. you might need that.. or rather.. if you are attacking me.. you likely won't need it anymore, because it will look like a collander probably by the time I percieve the threat has abated, sice you are so close.

and no.. no cowboy shooting from the hip. this wasn't a spray and pray session. this was a controlled burst fire drill with failure if all shots were not on the paper.

In short.. if I can point my index finger at you I don't need to be looking down the top strap of my gun for close range shooting.

I would take that to be a near universal learned response / capability for anyone that takes time to learn their weapon, train with it, and carry it, and be prepaired to use it.

course also covered things like loading or unloading in the dark, loading / unloading while keeping eye contact with a target, IE.. not looking at your gun.. etc.

again.. this was a law enforcement instructor. he's been one for 20ys, and was nra certified. from what he said.. I took it that this was some of the same training they gave / put LEO's thru.

good stuff in that course. it wasn't a show up, pay your money, get your certificate and leave deal... coverd the law, safety, statistics, tactics, handling techniques and range time. when my wife felt ready to take a class I hunted that guy back down for her to take it. Previous to that I was helping her practice. at 20' she could shoot tic-tac candy containers with her ruger 22 with a piece of masking tape across the sights.

her carry choice goes between a NEA 22mag rev ( I don't like it, even with the flip open grip holster.. but she likes the small profile ), or a tarus 85 recessed hammer dao in .38 . I carry either a sig p230 pr a keltec p3at, both in .380, just depends on how much clothing i'm wearing. sig for winter, keltec for any other time.

soundguy

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Depends on how fast you are...I think the bullet would travel faster then you.
However, I do think a lot of people would hesitate ever so slightly which might...might...give an assailant a bit of an advantage. The mindset of the assailant and defender are most important....and no one knows how they're going to react until they're involved.

I did some internet research on gun fights a while back (couple years, at least). Most are within 10 feet of one another, 5-10 rounds are expended and the fight is over within seconds

It's not the bullet, it's the shooter who can't react that fast. Cops are trained to shoot knife wielders withing 21 feet, because if they are closer than that they can stick you before you can respond. If you are sticking a gun out at arms length within 6 feet of an assailant, you are effectively unarmed. If a bg is stupid enough to pull that, and you know what to do, you have a really good chance of coming out of it unwounded. Take a self defense class to learn how to distract assailants while you move in another direction. If they can't get back on target and shoot with 1/2 second, you have them.

 

[Car Doc]

I have seen it done and actually had it demonstrated on me (unloaded weapon) that a person standing arms length away pointing a pistol at your chest you can grab it turn his wrist and point it back at him so fast he cant react and if he does he is more likely to shoot himself than anyone.

Not saying everyone can do this just I have seen it done in a dry fire situation - action ALWAYS beats reaction.

One of my LEO friends says a gun in his back is going to end up being pointed back at the bg also so fast he cant react also. We have tried this also dry fire and the least that happens is you dont get shot on the first pull cant say every time the pistol can be grabbed but moving the muzzle away from your back bone is a fact about 100% of the time as fast as blinking an eye.

The guy with a knife at 21 feet is a lot more dangerous especially if he knows how to use it. Massad Ayoob is quite an authority and is a legal expert also his articles are excellent reading.

fwtw I am 6' 235 lbs and I played back man on a competition paintball team I am not a super fast sprinter but am quicker than most give me credit for my size and I can almost guarantee I can get to you @ 7 yds faster than you can draw a weapon from under your shirt and make a center mass hit on me 75% of the time. A quick guy like my front man was can get you before you clear leather 100% of the time drawing from concealment.

We practice this at the range as an example to show new people how dangerous a knife or bat wielding opponent is it will open your eyes.

 

[two_bit_score]

I shot my very first two mags out of the new Taurus 24x7 9mm just now.

I was at about 10 paces, sun at my back, I started 2 handed, emptied the second clip almost entirely 1-handed, rapidly.

Clearly either the gun or I tend to shoot to the right, and most of those came from the rapid fire sequence.

I just reloaded both mags...


Like my target? :thumbsup:
heh heh heh...

I like it. :thumbsup:

 

[RoyJackson]

It's not the bullet, it's the shooter who can't react that fast. Cops are trained to shoot knife wielders withing 21 feet, because if they are closer than that they can stick you before you can respond. If you are sticking a gun out at arms length within 6 feet of an assailant, you are effectively unarmed. If a bg is stupid enough to pull that, and you know what to do, you have a really good chance of coming out of it unwounded. Take a self defense class to learn how to distract assailants while you move in another direction. If they can't get back on target and shoot with 1/2 second, you have them.

Well, I think you'd be dead at least 50% of the time!
At 6 feet it's point and shoot...not at arm's length either. I wouldn't be too concerned about where I hit you as long as I slowed or stopped you.