Using what I have

[muddstopper]

JJ, sorry about the pic's, they are from my cellphone and I tried all the different functions. I dont have a digital cammera.

In the plugged outlet port, the bottom of the port looks to be a machined taper seat. The side of the port has a machined slot that connects it to the other 2 outlet ports. The plug in the port isnt long enough to cover the slot or to seat in the bottom of the port. I will also note, there isnt any manufacturers name or model numbers to be found on this valve. Even if it is convertable to a PB, I dont know where or who to order the proper sleeve from.

There are actually 2 pumps on the longarm. The small one (dont know capacity), I assume was for the boom assembly. The second pump, much larger, I am guessing for the hydraulic motor that spins the mower blades. The machine had an accumilator which I am guessing was to help boost the longarm. There is also another single acting valve, (large ports) I am guessing again that this valve was to direct the oil from the pump to the hydraulic motor. The machine was given to me to salvage parts from so i dont know and never saw how it operated. To the best of my memory, both pumps shared a common suction port on the tank as well as a really large return filter arrangement. As to how the valves where hooked together, I am not sure they ever where, except thru the return to tank line.

 

[J_J]

Someone used two of those OUT ports for something. One of them is for the cyl exhaust.

If there is no sleeve and just a plug in the two end port, they use the top OUT port for the exhaust. All three are connected to the exhaust cavity, and either port could be used.

If that valve is the only valve in that circuit, they would use only one port and plug the others ports. If they use another valve down stream, they would use a PB sleeve and pass the fluid to the downstream valve. Usually all cyl expended fluid goes to tank.

 

[oldnslo]

They might have tied the return lines from the two separate pumps common in this valve. Why add tees in-line if the casting is already machined.

If made in volume these mono block spool valves can be made with all types of special features that are application specific.

Muddstopper,
you have way to much time on your hands

 

[muddstopper]

To get this project going again, do either of you think it would be alright to just go ahead and order this adjustable flow control valve https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-4169-12&catname=hydraulic to divide the flow between the two valves. If this will work, it will allow me to split wood, adjust my 4way, and work my knuckel boom up/down/in/out, with what I have on hand and then later on, if I decide to get ambitious again, I can look for another multispool valve with PB to work any other functions I my decide to addon. Ex, rotational boom, grapple, swivel, out riggers, ect.

 

[aczlan]

I like that plan. Allows flexibility for the future and allows you to (as needed) adjust the speed of your "aux block" on the fly without changing your splitting speed like changing engine RPMs would.

Aaron Z

 

[J_J]

muddstopper,

Are you going to provide full flow through the log splitter valve and then split the flow? Say dial in about 2 GPM for the log lift and wedge lift, and sent the excess flow flow to the filter, and then tank?

You can still add external reliefs if you need them.

 

[oldnslo]

Muddstopper,,
good plan and a word of cautionary advice.

1) Make sure you have a system relief as the first item from the pump. I.e. before the flow divider if that is the first valve.

2) If you install this down stream of the splitter valve you must have a power beyond capable valve in the splitter function.

 

[muddstopper]

Heres the plan, unless someone thinks this plan stinks. Come off pump with pressure line, attach to flow control. From flow control run one line with most flow to splitter valve with built in relief to power splitter cylinder and back to return line filter at tank. Second line from flow control to 3spool valve to power other functions, flow adjusted to 1-2 gpm or whatever is needed to get the desired cyl speed for 4way and knuckel boom. Then back to return filter at tank. Probably Tee both return lines together before filter. I believe that is a adjustable relief on the 3spool valve so both valves will have reliefs, but reliefs will be after flow control. The problem I see with reliefs after the flow control would be if the reliefs in the control valves failed. Is that correct or is there some other problem I am not aware of.

This flow control has a built in relief, https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-064-75&catname=hydraulic, should I purchase this one instead of https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-4169-12&catname=hydraulic which does not have the relief.

 

[aczlan]

Will your splitter valve handle the full flow of the pump?
If so, I would run the flow divider AFTER the splitter valve. Otherwise, you could force too much flow on one direction or the other.

Just my $0.02

Aaron Z

 

[muddstopper]

Will your splitter valve handle the full flow of the pump?
If so, I would run the flow divider AFTER the splitter valve. Otherwise, you could force too much flow on one direction or the other.

Just my $0.02

Aaron Z

Splitter valve isnot PB capable. The valve is rated for 25gpm, pump is 11gpm overspeeded to 16gpm. Flow control is rated for 30gpm. In other words, valves should handle all the oil I have to throw at them. 3Spool valve i dont know of flow capacity but I am only planning on 2 or 3 gpm at most in that valve. If I could plumb the flow control in after the splitter valve, I wouldnt need the flow control to attach my other valve. The flow control is my way of trying to get around the power beyond that neither of my valves has. Actuallly, if the flow control works as I think it should, I should be better able to control cyl speed on knuckel boom without haveing to resort to restricted fittings to slow flow. I hope that makes sense. I am confuseing myself.

 

[aczlan]

Splitter valve isnot PB capable. The valve is rated for 25gpm, pump is 11gpm overspeeded to 16gpm. Flow control is rated for 30gpm. In other words, valves should handle all the oil I have to throw at them. 3Spool valve i dont know of flow capacity but I am only planning on 2 or 3 gpm at most in that valve. If I could plumb the flow control in after the splitter valve, I wouldnt need the flow control to attach my other valve. The flow control is my way of trying to get around the power beyond that neither of my valves has. Actuallly, if the flow control works as I think it should, I should be better able to control cyl speed on knuckel boom without haveing to resort to restricted fittings to slow flow. I hope that makes sense. I am confuseing myself.

Makes sense. That should work (IMO)

Aaron Z

 

[oldnslo]

Heres the plan, unless someone thinks this plan stinks. Come off pump with pressure line, attach to flow control. From flow control run one line with most flow to splitter valve with built in relief to power splitter cylinder and back to return line filter at tank. Second line from flow control to 3spool valve to power other functions, flow adjusted to 1-2 gpm or whatever is needed to get the desired cyl speed for 4way and knuckel boom. Then back to return filter at tank. Probably Tee both return lines together before filter. I believe that is a adjustable relief on the 3spool valve so both valves will have reliefs, but reliefs will be after flow control. The problem I see with reliefs after the flow control would be if the reliefs in the control valves failed. Is that correct or is there some other problem I am not aware of.

This flow control has a built in relief, https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-064-75&catname=hydraulic, should I purchase this one instead of https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-4169-12&catname=hydraulic which does not have the relief.

Yes purchase the flow control with the built in relief. Cheap insurance if the Flow control fails.

Set this as your main relief. If you want you can set the other reliefs at different pressures as required.

What is your target operating pressure? Make sure the valve will adjust in that range..
Roy

 

[muddstopper]

OK, I will order the flow control with relief and install as i described. I had planned on top pressure of 3000psi, but if the pump makes the 16gpm you say at 1750rpms, then I might be low on power to make that pressure. At anyrate, the flow control is rated at 30gpm so I guess I will just adjust reliefs until I bogg the engine and back off to just where it doesnt shut down.

I got a call from a buddy of mine that runs the scrap yard. He told me he just got in a 321 backhoe attachment for a ditchwitch today. heres one one Ebay, DITCH WITCH A321 BACKHOE ATTACHMENT | eBay The best I can add up is the control valve should have 6 funtions. dont know if PB will be part of that valve. I plan on tommorrow to attack that piece of scrap and get me a control valve, some out riggers and a swing assembly. At $.20cents a lb, no telling how much of that scrap will make it home with me.

 

[oldnslo]

With luck maybe al the valves for the hoe will be with the hoe plumbed and ready to operate:thumbsup:

Best of luck

 

[aczlan]

With luck maybe al the valves for the hoe will be with the hoe plumbed and ready to operate:thumbsup:

Then you would only need the knuckle assembly to replace the bucket and you would have an arm.
Could even put a winch on the top of the dipper stick for a little extra reach.

Aaron Z

 

[muddstopper]

Hoe is supposed to be complete. I plan on salvaging the two outrigger assemblies, swing cylinders, and valvebank. What else I get will just depends on what it looks like and If I think I can have a use for it. I already have my knucleboom made for my splitter, the hoe boom would probably be to heavy anyways. My knuckleboom is pretty light duty, 3x3x14ga, but all I plan on lifting are 24in sticks of firewood. I can always add some ladder braceing if the boom flexes to much.

 

[oldnslo]

Muddstopper,
finally found my old Vickers catalog and your V210 pump is rated for 1800 RPM and 2000 PSI Max.

Roy

 

[muddstopper]

I knew i was close on the rpms's, but I thought the pump should be able to do 2700psi. 2000psi hurts my feelings. Just wondering is their anyway to up the pressure on that pump?

On another note, I got the valve off the hoe today, it has 4spools and PB. I gave $10 for the valve, but save $86+shipping by not haveing to buy the flow control.

 

[oldnslo]

I knew i was close on the rpms's, but I thought the pump should be able to do 2700psi. 2000psi hurts my feelings. Just wondering is their anyway to up the pressure on that pump?

On another note, I got the valve off the hoe today, it has 4spools and PB. I gave $10 for the valve, but save $86+shipping by not haveing to buy the flow control.

Mudstopper,
I don't think you will have enough HP to drive this pump at 2500 PSI, suspect you may be borderline at 2000 PSI. Yes for momentary use you can probably exceed the 2000 PSI. Question becomes, what is momentary and what breaks first.

Rule of thumb is: 1 HP will provide 1 GPM @ 1500 PSI so at 1750 RPM you will have approx 16 GPM and what HP will the motor develop at 1750 RPM??

Good job on the valve stack.

Roy

 

[J_J]

With 2000 psi and a 4 in cyl and 2 in shaft, you should have about 12 ton splitter.

Is that going to be enough

This 11 GPM pump will provide 3000 psi in the low speed mode, and cost $130.

This pump will increase your tonnage to about 19.

Surplus Center - 11 GPM 2 STAGE HYD PUMP.

Your 25 HP Kohler will turn this pump 28 GPM pump. Same tonnage at 19, but much faster,

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7971&catname=hydraulic

25 HP - 18 GPM at 2000 psi.
-------- 14.5 ------2500 psi
---------12---------3000 psi