Kubota M59 and Trailer, Weight ?

[Duffster]

a vehicle having air brakes does not automatically mean you need a CDL. It did lower your GVW. The standard 26K pound go/no go for a CDL did not apply.

Air brakes doesn't lower your GVW(R).

In this day and age, I would imagine trying to find a vehicle outfitted with air brakes that only has a gvw in the teens isn't a likely find. So, kind of a moot point, almost. Maybe something of the antique vintage possibly.

They are fairly rare but they are out there.

Not long ago I delivered a little Kenworth with a 19k GVWR with air.

 

[Big Wave D]

Air brakes doesn't lower your GVW(R).

I didn't word that very well.

She seemed to be saying that if a person is to be using a vehicle for non commercial use and it has air brakes, then they only let you have a GVWR of somewhere in the teens.

Like I said, I can't find my notes to refresh my memory.

If the vehicle had hydraulic brakes, then you were good for up to 26K pounds.

Agreed Duffster, there don't seem to be many vehicles that could fit under this odd classification. It's just that most people hear air brakes and immediately think they need a CDL, even if for noncommercial use.

The farm tags eliminate the need for a CDL for a lot of noncommercial users, but those tags limit you to a certain radius of use from your plates given county. Probably for most people this isn't going to cause them problems.

 

[Duffster]

She seemed to be saying that if a person is to be using a vehicle for non commercial use and it has air brakes, then they only let you have a GVWR of somewhere in the teens.

I can tell you with 99.9% certainty that that is not the case.

 

[Big Wave D]

I guess that this just proves how murky these waters are. I started with the standard number for my local license branch. They passed me off to a State Trooper phone number, and they passed me off to some Commercial Division at the state capital.

I can only relay what was told me. As to if they were correct or not, I can't argue one way or the other because the CDL regs I can look at online don't address this minutia of this topic.

Just saying...

 

[Goosen1]

Farm use is typically exempt form CDL.

You need to test on air brakes to get your CDL other wise you will have an air brakes restriction. There isn't any air endorsement.



Why is it you never have anything to helpful to add?

Answer the OP's question or back up your statements with some facts.

Unfortunately you must of stopped reading after the first two sentences.

Farm equipment is often exempt unless the vehicle has air brakes. Then you are required to have a CDL. If you have any questions about weight limits or restrictions you should call your local DMV and ask them what is required. Or even better find a state patrol officer that specializes in DOT regulations and ask him. If that doesn't make you happy, Go to a weigh station and ask the officer in there and he will give you the correct answer.

 

[Goosen1]

I guess that this just proves how murky these waters are. I started with the standard number for my local license branch. They passed me off to a State Trooper phone number, and they passed me off to some Commercial Division at the state capital.

I can only relay what was told me. As to if they were correct or not, I can't argue one way or the other because the CDL regs I can look at online don't address this minutia of this topic.

Just saying...

That's pretty sad that none of them can't give you a straight answer. With all of these exemptions that are mandated, It's almost impossible to keep up with them since they are always changing. I would get a non commercial A CDL and at least you will have all of your bases covered. Also, Make sure you keep under the maximum gross axle weight which is usually on the trailers identification plate that you are hauling and make sure all of your lights work.

 

[sandman2234]

There are a lot of gray areas which contain areas that are enforced and areas that aren't enforced, giving some of us a sense of accomplishment if we get stopped and don't get ticketed or warned about a certain part of the law(s). Given that the d.o.t. in most of the states I have been in understand at least a little more than us, but very few know the whole thing completely, and they are subject to the same problem that we have, which is interpetation. That is why there seems to be a rash of roadside stoppings for certain types of vehicles, then they leave them alone for a while, stopping other types. Probably someone higher up the food chain has submitted a target list for the month and the guy on the street is just trying to cover his tush and keep his boss happy.
I quit worrying about the d.o.t. rules as they apply to my drivers license, and have become extremely SCARED of the CSA2010 rules as they apply to commercial drivers. I long for the days when all I had to worry about was if my weight was ok when I went across a scale. Heck, when I first started driving, my wife did my logbook once a week so I could turn it in to get paid. Things are rapidly changing, and not for the better...

dot had a guy pulled over last night, with a truck stacked on another truck (front axle sitting on the fifth wheel, rear axles on the ground, and a ball hitch on the back of that one pulling a straight truck (about 26'). I bet the d.o.t had a field day with that guy... wouldn't want to be him, because Florida law doesn't allow that combination best I know.
David from jax


Interpetation by the guy on the side of your door is the only one that is really going to matter. Right, wrong or indifferent...

 

[Big Wave D]

sandman2234, Goosen1

Amen, to both of your recent posts.

 

[Goosen1]

I deal with the new CSA2010 rules every night that I work. When I started driving years ago it was a fun career but now with all of the new rules and citations that are diving out on a regular basis, It's not a job that is worth the stress. Carriers want you to go go go but when we point out that this or that is wrong, They get bent out of shape and you get labeled as a bad example.

Now since the internet is more or less the only way that I can find out the new and ever changing rules, I can keep up with most changes.

Big Wave D, It's always worth the extra money to go to a certified scale at a truck fuel/stop and find out how much each axle set weighs. That will start the process of what you need to find your answer.

 

[Goosen1]

There are a lot of gray areas which contain areas that are enforced and areas that aren't enforced, giving some of us a sense of accomplishment if we get stopped and don't get ticketed or warned about a certain part of the law(s). Given that the d.o.t. in most of the states I have been in understand at least a little more than us, but very few know the whole thing completely, and they are subject to the same problem that we have, which is interpetation. That is why there seems to be a rash of roadside stoppings for certain types of vehicles, then they leave them alone for a while, stopping other types. Probably someone higher up the food chain has submitted a target list for the month and the guy on the street is just trying to cover his tush and keep his boss happy.
I quit worrying about the d.o.t. rules as they apply to my drivers license, and have become extremely SCARED of the CSA2010 rules as they apply to commercial drivers. I long for the days when all I had to worry about was if my weight was ok when I went across a scale. Heck, when I first started driving, my wife did my logbook once a week so I could turn it in to get paid. Things are rapidly changing, and not for the better...

dot had a guy pulled over last night, with a truck stacked on another truck (front axle sitting on the fifth wheel, rear axles on the ground, and a ball hitch on the back of that one pulling a straight truck (about 26'). I bet the d.o.t had a field day with that guy... wouldn't want to be him, because Florida law doesn't allow that combination best I know.
David from jax


Interpetation by the guy on the side of your door is the only one that is really going to matter. Right, wrong or indifferent...

Only if I could tell you the stories that I have encountered throughout the years that I have seen. One of the biggest pet peeves that I have is someone pulling a trailer at night with no trailer lights on at all!!!

 

[Big Wave D]

Goosen1,
Thank you for you sage words of advice. I will do that, if I decide to go down that road. I have been toying with the idea of getting a large sized work truck, something more than a one ton or so pickup. I know that even these can now days get you into hot water because of their rated capacities.

So far, it seems that it hasn't been worth taking on the hassle.

I guess that getting the CDL is probably the route for most piece of mind; however, the expense of obtaining and maintaining don't make this a particularly great choice either.

Doing any side work makes you already in violation of not having a CDL, as I understand it. Yes, it has been stated about all the lawn care business and how they seemingly skirt the law.

How does the law come down on having someone with a CDL getting your tractor to the work-site, then you doing the work once the tractor is on site?

You have paid for a commercially licensed individual to transport the tractor to and from the job. Does it matter that you are making money with it once it gets there?

 

[Big Wave D]

buck1974,
Sorry about semi-hijacking your post.

You've posed a question that I have wondered about for a long time, as well as many others.

I'm not sure that anyone can really give everyone a definitive answer, as so much seems to be dependent on where, state - country, you live. Also, there seems to be nuances from region to region with one's own borders.

It truly boils down to the man/woman who pulled you over and how they are interpreting the laws they are sworn to uphold.

I just had a friend regale me with some tales of his dealings with a local DOT enforcer. They did not seem to have a real good grasp on what they are supposed to be enforcing. The friend didn't argue, but some things were not quite ringing true as he was told them to be by another DOT employee.

In the end, it really seems like everyone has to do their own due diligence and investigate as thoroughly as they can for what they are planning on using/doing. Then, when you feel like you've followed the regs to the best of your ability, dip your toes into the water and sink or swim on your own merits of preparedness.

God speed and good luck to all.

 

[Duffster]

Unfortunately you must of stopped reading after the first two sentences.

Farm equipment is often exempt unless the vehicle has air brakes. Then you are required to have a CDL. If you have any questions about weight limits or restrictions you should call your local DMV and ask them what is required. Or even better find a state patrol officer that specializes in DOT regulations and ask him. If that doesn't make you happy, Go to a weigh station and ask the officer in there and he will give you the correct answer.

That fine you can do that if you want. Then get run around like BWD and not get an answer to your question and worse yet be more confused then when you started.

Why ask a LEO the law anyway. Wouldn't you be better off asking a lawyer?

Your comments aboot air brakes are still incorrect.

LOL. I stopped once at the local scale to talk to the CMVI that manned that scale. I asked what the weight limit was on my gooseneck that has 2 7k axles. Expecting to hear GVWR, license weight, tire rating, axle rating etc. I was told it was 34k (bridge law).

 

[Duffster]

Are you saying that everyone towing a trailer needs a CDL?

So DSGSR, is that what you are saying here?

 

[Duffster]

Class B: any single vehicle with a gross vehicle
weight rating or registered weight of 26,001 or
more pounds or any such vehicle towing a
vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds gross
vehicle weight rating or gross weight A Class B
license is a commercial driver痴 license. Holders
of a Class B license may, with any appropriate
endorsements, operate all vehicles in Class C;]

DSGSR, using your reasoning then you would need a CDL for any trailer.

Isn't that the logical conclusion using your reasoning?

 

[Duffster]

So DSGSR, is that what you are saying here?

Isn't that the logical conclusion using your reasoning?

Bump for DSGSR.

 

[AKfish]

There's a couple of unfortunate things going on here... that has led to continued confusion and misinformation!

IMO - the worst offense is that no one has posted the legal requirements from their respective states. Some excerpts - clipping's - that are incomplete and possibly out of context.

And the backbiting... good grief!

This is a confounding enough subject without the petty p!ssing on each other's shoes!

I have "gleaned" at least one beneficial kernal of information here - the regulations are based upon the manufacturer's weight RATING'S. Not the actual weight. Did not know that previously.

Thank you, for that.

Additionally, it now appears that I've been "illegal" as well when hauling across the western half of the North American Continent. My truck is rated for 22,000lbs CGVWR and my gooseneck trailer is rated for 15,700lbs CGVWR.

While, I have not consistently hauled more than 15.7K (a couple of times..); I often (nearly always) haul 12,000lbs +.

So, the "take away" message I've gotten here... is I need to get a CDL. Right...??

AKfish

 

[Duffster]

There's a couple of unfortunate things going on here... that has led to continued confusion and misinformation!

IMO - the worst offense is that no one has posted the legal requirements from their respective states. Some excerpts - clipping's - that are incomplete and possibly out of context.

And the backbiting... good grief!

This is a confounding enough subject without the petty p!ssing on each other's shoes!

I have "gleaned" at least one beneficial kernal of information here - the regulations are based upon the manufacturer's weight RATING'S. Not the actual weight. Did not know that previously.

Thank you, for that.

Additionally, it now appears that I've been "illegal" as well when hauling across the western half of the North American Continent. My truck is rated for 22,000lbs CGVWR and my gooseneck trailer is rated for 15,700lbs CGVWR.

While, I have not consistently hauled more than 15.7K (a couple of times..); I often (nearly always) haul 12,000lbs +.

So, the "take away" message I've gotten here... is I need to get a CDL. Right...??

AKfish

Trucks and trailers don't have a CGVWR individually. CGVWR would be the GVWR of your truck and trailer added together.

In order to decide if you need a CDL or not we would need to know the GVWR of your truck and the GVWR of your trailer.

 

[AKfish]

Trucks and trailers don't have a CGVWR individually. CGVWR would be the GVWR of your truck and trailer added together.

In order to decide if you need a CDL or not we would need to know the GVWR of your truck and the GVWR of your trailer.

I'll check in the morning..

AKfish

 

[AKfish]

There's another thread on this subject is posted in the general owner's/operating forum with the heading .... L46, etc. etc.

Nonetheless, my truck's rating is 22K @ GCVWR and the trailer is 15.7K GVWR.

More thought's..?

Thanks.

AKfish