HST Operation

ddb123 · Jan 23, 2012

I have (and love) a gear transmission. I was thinking about hydros the other day and I was wondering how they work. My lawn mower is hydro but it's pretty simple compared to what I imagine a tractor has. My questions are:

How do you manage to use steering brakes?

What purpose does the clutch serve?

Is the ability to go back/forth quickly hard on the drivetrain?

Do these things have gears driving the wheels like a gear tranny does and the hydraulics just control the ratio/power/speed?

I'm not looking to be "converted." These questions are just to sate my curiosity if anyone feels like educating me. A new tractor is out of the question right now, and I really like my gears anyway (always had standard-tranny cars and trucks -- I just really enjoy clutching and shifting and whatnot).

jpm1 · Jan 23, 2012

With a Hydro there is no clutch. You have 3 ranges. . .Low, medium and high range. Heavy pulling is usually done in Low range, Loader work for the most part and all other work, Medium range works good and High range is for transport.
Most Hydro's have 2 pedals on the right. Pedal on the left is forward and right pedal is reverse.Some have a "rocker pedal" with this style "toe" is forward and "heel" is reverse. The brake pedals are on your left side so using the brakes to help steer is possible, its just a matter of getting use to doing it with a different foot.
The best part of a Hydro, IMO is the ability to go quickly from forward to backward without drivetrain damage and operator fatuige. Great for loader work and rear mounted blowers. I am currently running 2 Hydro's with no problems what so ever. Hope this helps . . .John

Thomas · Jan 23, 2012

On my Kubota brakes are the same side as F/R pedal...foot of pedal you slow to to stop.
HST for loader work and many rear attachments sure makes the job easier.
Cost for filters fluid will be tad higher $$$'s.

OkieDave · Jan 23, 2012

jpm1 said:
With a Hydro there is no clutch. You have 3 ranges. . .Low, medium and high range. Heavy pulling is usually done in Low range, Loader work for the most part and all other work, Medium range works good and High range is for transport.
Most Hydro's have 2 pedals on the right. Pedal on the left is forward and right pedal is reverse.Some have a "rocker pedal" with this style "toe" is forward and "heel" is reverse. The brake pedals are on your left side so using the brakes to help steer is possible, its just a matter of getting use to doing it with a different foot.
The best part of a Hydro, IMO is the ability to go quickly from forward to backward without drivetrain damage and operator fatuige. Great for loader work and rear mounted blowers. I am currently running 2 Hydro's with no problems what so ever. Hope this helps . . .John

Beg pardon...there is a clutch on my hydro; it's used for selecting ranges, and also for engaging or disengaging the PTO (clutch, engage lever, release clutch). I also have the brakes on the right, so split-braking (or any braking, really) is a challenge while driving forward. I suppose you could put your heel on the forward pedal and your toe on the appropriate brake. I've never done it, but I have flat, open land with no need to make sharp turns.

I love my hydro, but I would caution anybody to think carefully about using a hydro for mowing or other constant-speed jobs without a cruise control. I'd hate to be holding that pedal down for three hours. For loader work, though, there's nothing finer.

TripleR · Jan 23, 2012

ddb123 said:
I have (and love) a gear transmission. I was thinking about hydros the other day and I was wondering how they work. My lawn mower is hydro but it's pretty simple compared to what I imagine a tractor has. My questions are:

1. How do you manage to use steering brakes?

On a John Deere, Kioti etc., brake with your left foot. On a Kubota do the "Kubota Shuffle" by crossing over the left foot. You can also use the cruise control lever in lieu of the foot HST and do right foot braking. I rarely need to use split brakes, but for me it's not a big issue.

What purpose does the clutch serve?

On the Kubota it disconnects the drive train making it spin faster for easier starts, or so I am told, manual says to use it to change between ranges and on live PTO models to engage/disengage PTO.

Is the ability to go back/forth quickly hard on the drivetrain?

No, that is one of their purposes.

Do these things have gears driving the wheels like a gear tranny does and the hydraulics just control the ratio/power/speed?

A quick Bing or Google search will answer all your questions.

I'm not looking to be "converted." These questions are just to sate my curiosity if anyone feels like educating me. A new tractor is out of the question right now, and I really like my gears anyway (always had standard-tranny cars and trucks -- I just really enjoy clutching and shifting and whatnot).

For in depth answers use the "search" function and you will find hours of information mixed with opinion.

I drive and like both types.

SPYDERLK · Jan 23, 2012

An HST trans is basically a variable displacement pump driving a hyd motor. You control the pump displacement with the foot pedal. The top output torque of the trans is limited by the setting of an internal relief valve to govern the max pressure fed to the motor.
llllarry

k0ua · Jan 23, 2012

Not only will you find hours of "opinions" about gear vs hydro, you can even get lots of opinions about 2 pedal vs single pedal. here are my opinions, I like my single pedal best, but I think it is what ever you get used to. I have more hours on gear tractors than hydro. but I will never go back to gear. Hydro is just too convienant to use, and gives so much better control. I have not worn out my hydro yet going back and forth rapidly, and that is the majority of what I do.. Yes I second the motion for the cruise control if you were to mow long stretches with the hydro. Even my el cheapo Kubota has it. My hydro has a clutch, but it is only used as a safety switch to start the tractor, and to engage and disengage the PTO. You don't even need it when changing ranges, just make sure the hydro pedal is centered (neutral) and you are not moving. Some hydro tractors have no clutch, and do the PTO thing with an electrical/hydraulic button. My split brakes are on the right, not so good, but useable by using the cruise lever to maintain forward speed and using right foot to steer via split brakes. Or there is the Kubota/Ballet TuTu shuffle where you cross your legs and brake with your left foot, but since I look terrible in a TuTu, it's not for me. The range lever is a actual gear shift the hydro is in front of that driveline wise, and the final reduction gears are gears. I am not trying to convert you, but if you have never done loader work with a hydro tractor you have missed a major treat in life.

James K0UA

ddb123 · Jan 23, 2012

Thanks for the great answers guys.

TripleR, search on the iPhone app is my weakness. It doesn't let you narrow results in any way, so searching for HST operation will return any thread that has those words anywhere in it. Thank you for helping clear that up my questions. The various differences between manufacturers really confused me.

James, seeing your posts about HST in several other threads got me thinking about it. The far majority of my work is/will be mowing and hogging. Some loader work occasionally but so far I've only used it as a wheel barrow, moved a couple attachments, and knocked down and moved deadwood cluttering my woods trail. Seems like HST would be nice when trying to back up to attachments though. I do use the split brakes a lot but would probably be using cruise too in that case. Maybe someday when I get a new tractor I will look seriously at hydros.

Thanks for responding everyone, cleared up the confusion for me and made my break times much more enjoyable!

k0ua · Jan 23, 2012

ddb123 said:
Thanks for the great answers guys.

TripleR, search on the iPhone app is my weakness. It doesn't let you narrow results in any way, so searching for HST operation will return any thread that has those words anywhere in it. Thank you for helping clear that up my questions. The various differences between manufacturers really confused me.

James, seeing your posts about HST in several other threads got me thinking about it. The far majority of my work is/will be mowing and hogging. Some loader work occasionally but so far I've only used it as a wheel barrow, moved a couple attachments, and knocked down and moved deadwood cluttering my woods trail. Seems like HST would be nice when trying to back up to attachments though. I do use the split brakes a lot but would probably be using cruise too in that case. Maybe someday when I get a new tractor I will look seriously at hydros.

Thanks for responding everyone, cleared up the confusion for me and made my break times much more enjoyable!

Hey I noticed you are in SW Mo.. if you want to come by some time I live near Branson, and have a Kubota L3400HST, and a gravel pile.. You are welcome to come and try it for yourself if you want.

James K0UA

wcampbell47 · Jan 23, 2012

I have 700 plus hours on my gear 7510 and 47 hours on my HST B3200. I was of the opinion when I bought the 7510 that gear was better for mowing. I was WRONG. The HST allows me to slow the forward motion when I hit a rough patch easier than the gear. Would have to downshift or slip clutch. Mowing around objects is much easier. PTO stays the same speed when switching between forward and reverse motion. Not so with the gear. Most of my mowing is small in size so maneuverability is hugely important. The HST is way more maneuverable than the gear even though the latter is the smaller of the two tractors.

Cheers!

k0ua · Jan 23, 2012

The HST is way more maneuverable than the gear even though the latter is the smaller of the two tractors.

Exactly, with the hydro you don't need to use split braking so much because you can see-saw so quickly without any effort.

James K0UA

ddb123 · Jan 23, 2012

James, that is a seriously generous offer! I live in the Joplin/Neosho area and have grandparents in Branson. I just might wind up taking you up on that.

Here's a question that I forgot earlier, OkieDave kind of touched on it: most of my property is not level, so I often wind up using brakes and clutch in conjunction after I stop in order to smoothly get started again. Is this trouble on a hydro with same-side brake and hydro pedals?

My mowing is in big, mostly open areas but I'm starting to think maybe hydro would be better in the woods.

I can say for sure that when I'm actually ON my tractor, I'm having a blast and not thinking about what kind of transmission it has.

k0ua · Jan 23, 2012

ddb123 said:
James, that is a seriously generous offer! I live in the Joplin/Neosho area and have grandparents in Branson. I just might wind up taking you up on that.

Here's a question that I forgot earlier, OkieDave kind of touched on it: most of my property is not level, so I often wind up using brakes and clutch in conjunction after I stop in order to smoothly get started again. Is this trouble on a hydro with same-side brake and hydro pedals?

My mowing is in big, mostly open areas but I'm starting to think maybe hydro would be better in the woods.

I can say for sure that when I'm actually ON my tractor, I'm having a blast and not thinking about what kind of transmission it has.

Seriously come on down and I will let you play. No, brakes are seldom needed on a hydro, even on these extreme hills on my place. when you take your foot off of the forward, the hydro will just barely drift even if pointed downhill.. Now over time it will roll off, so you always want to park with your parking brake set, and I usually drop my ballast barrel and the bucket too. but starting and stopping is no problem at all. you rarely need the brakes at all as the pedal self centers (neutrals) and holds you . The hydro is wonderful in the woods. ( I have a lot of woods) because you can go so slow and change directions so quickly to work around trees. Don;t get e wrong I used my B7500DT (gear) for 8 years in these same woods, and it worked fine. But the hydro is just so much better. (at least for me). If you are serious about coming down, just PM me and maybe you can work in a visit with your grandparents and stop by here for a while, I am on the northeast side of Branson, just about 2 or 3 miles out of the city limits. Another thing about the hydro is when pulling over or pushing over small (live)trees., The Hydro allows you to apply slow steady even pressure without wheel spin. The tree will either give up or it won't, but you have done it in a manner that I believe is safer, no jerking, no clutch slipping, less shock to everything. Come on over to the "dark side"

I bet if I can get you to use the tractor for even 20 minutes moving gravel around, you will love it. Your welcome any time just let me know.

James K0UA

OkieDave · Jan 24, 2012

^^^ What he said.

I bought my tractor (Mahindra 3316HST) in May. In the eight months I've owned it, I may have touched the brake pedal twice (parking brake notwithstanding--I use it regularly). As a rule, by the time I take my foot off the hydro pedal to put it on the brake, I'm stopped before I can apply the brake. I say this after comparing the Mahindra to the NH and Kubota: the Mahindra is smooth to let off; the NH and Kubota will knock your fillings loose if you release the pedal quickly.

My Mahindra has split pedals, with a hinged connecting bar binding them. I've never separated them. As to power, this evening, I was dragging dead trees out of a line of brush. I was dead-stop and lugging the engine several times, but none were due to a failure of the HST. I either spun the tires in sand (and on asphalt) or just plain didn't have the power to deliver, but the HST was perfectly happy to stop a turbocharged Diesel in its tracks.

I'll see James's offer and raise it: any time you want to play, I have many, many hours of work to be done. Come visit and I'll let you play until your backside is sore and my trees are all gone. Heck, I'll even bring the beer.

--Dave

k0ua · Jan 24, 2012

Well ddb123, there you have it, now you have 2 offers. We are enthusiastic about our Hydro equipped tractors because we really believe they offer a level of useability and control that is just not available in other designs. Now like everything in life there are downsides. One is the fact in general they usually cost more, They make a "whiney" sound especially when under load, they reduce the amount of power delivered to the wheels and PTO by about 5 to 10 percent. And they produce more heat due to those parasitic power losses. There is also another filter to change in the maint. interval. But with all the downsides figured in, the upsides so far outweigh the downsides that they seem trivial in comparison.

James K0UA

TripleR · Jan 24, 2012

ddb123 said:
Thanks for the great answers guys.

TripleR, search on the iPhone app is my weakness. It doesn't let you narrow results in any way, so searching for HST operation will return any thread that has those words anywhere in it. Thank you for helping clear that up my questions. The various differences between manufacturers really confused me.

I know what you mean, even on a regular computer it takes me quite a while to find what I want, here are just a few:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/222016-transmission-type-selection.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-brakes-hydrostatic-transmission-tractor.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-poll-your-satisfaction-your-hydrostatic.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/180910-quick-question-about-turning-brakes.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/160338-hydros-brake-pedals.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-does-anybody-really-dislike-hydrostatic.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-does-anybody-really-dislike-hydrostatic.html

ddb123 · Jan 24, 2012

You guys are way too kind. Don't be surprised if you get a PM from me when it gets a little warmer. Then again, maybe I need to stay away from HST so I don't end up dissatisfied with my current tractor and forced to spend a lot of money on a new one!

3R, you are just helping me spend even more time on TBN! If I were married I think my wife would be your enemy

IndyIan · Jan 24, 2012

One other benefit to the HST is the ability to creep slowly and then take off at full speed (in that range) either forwards or backwards. I think this is the biggest advantage over a shuttle shift which can do the forward to reverse part quite well.