Metal Roof Question

[beppington]

You wouldn't be using my equipment to get up there. It's an insurance thing.
You want proof I have insurance, so you will understand when I tell you only me or my employee is allowed on my equipment.

You have a slightly hostile attitude, so I'm sure you would be doing this job yourself. That's fine, that means you are capable.
I'll just say the customer that is hostile or untrusting gets the lowest level of service. Just the bare minimum. The customer that is trusting and leaves you a check before the job is done will get the highest level of service, the most attention to detail.

I know that probably goes against the normal thinking, but that's how it is with me. The easier you make my life the more time I have to dedicate to the work on hand.

No offense to you personally of course, you are probably the type that is very handy and does not need to hire out often, so our paths would not likely cross.

This may be the case from you ... & from some other trustworthy contractors ... but how do we know which ones you are?? Plenty of contractors would take advantage of that trust, especially ones where the contractor just hires whatever immature and/or barely skilled workers he can find, who don't really wanna be there anyway. "Oh, cool, the customer already paid! Should we make sure we caught every screw on that other side? Well, we'd have to move the ladders again ... Nah, let's hit the bar!"

 

[aczlan]

Personally, when someone comes out to quote the job, that is the time to see how they will work, what they will do AND get it in writing if need be.
I hired someone to work on the hot water heat in our house mainly because he came out, looked at the system, was able to teach me something about how it worked and he flat out knew his stuff (PM me if you need someone to work on a boiler in the Fingerlakes/Rochester area).

Once they are on the job, I may ask the boss about something that came up and I may watch and/or do a walkthrough if the job warrants it to make sure the job is being done as advertised, but the reason I pay someone to do something is because I don't have the time and/or skills to do it myself.

I have too much else happening to stand around and second guess a professional who is being paid to do a job (unless they have proven that they need to be watched in which case, they are one step from being asked to leave the property and not come back).

Edit: And no, I WILL NOT give full payment until the job is done. That is foolish as you have almost no recourse if they need to come back and fix something.

Aaron Z

 

[JB4310]

This may be the case from you ... & from some other trustworthy contractors ... but how do we know which ones you are?? Plenty of contractors would take advantage of that trust, especially ones where the contractor just hires whatever immature and/or barely skilled workers he can find, who don't really wanna be there anyway. "Oh, cool, the customer already paid! Should we make sure we caught every screw on that other side? Well, we'd have to move the ladders again ... Nah, let's hit the bar!"

I hear ya,

Home improvement contractors generate the most consumer complaints of all businesses. And some of them are real nightmares.
So it is difficult for the customer, even just comparing prices is hard since it is a service not a product you are buying.

I'm a very soft seller, and try not to put down my competition. It's frustrating for me though when I know that a competitor offers poor quality service, but the customer is considering them over me.
I know the market and know this guy has complaints and unhappy customers, but if I tell the customer that, it just make me look bad.

Eddie kind of alluded to it, but basically your bidding on me, we have the latitude to work for whom we prefer, I prefer to work for nice people, there tends to be less drama and misunderstandings are almost non existent.
I don't mind working for stingy people at all, as long as we agree to a price and what is expected for that amount of money, no problems. Even real crotchety people once in awhile, as long as they are honest, that gives us something to laugh about later, even years later we might joke about some difficult customer :laughing:

This is my 30th year as what my state calls a home improvement contractor.
We have to register with the state consumer protection dept, pay a fee that goes into a guarantee fund, so if a customer gets burned by me or other legal contractor they can get reimbursed by the state for their loss.
The consumer protection department also keeps records of complaints against contractors, I have had 2 official complaints in all these years, both of them were considered unfounded by the DCP. in other words they have to take and record the complaint but did not find any wrong doing on my part and didn't require me to do anything. after 8 years they are expunged from the record like a traffic ticket.

In all these years I have never been sued or had a single customer not pay me, which from what I hear from other contractors is pretty remarkable.



JB

 

[forgeblast]

Pennsylvania now has all contractors in the state with a liscense number, that you can search at the attorney generals office to see if there were any complaints.
I went to research one person and realized they put a fake number on their business card.

 

[JB4310]

Pennsylvania now has all contractors in the state with a liscense number, that you can search at the attorney generals office to see if there were any complaints.
I went to research one person and realized they put a fake number on their business card.

We have had that since before I started my business in 83. it only cost like 30 dollars back then, now it's ~$300. Ct points out it is not a license since that implies their endorsement or that a test was passed, technically we are registered contractors and that is the term I have always used. but some guys like to say they are "licensed" by the state.

The state flip flopped on whether you should use your registration number in any advertisement, again cause it pointed to some kind of state endorsement. At one time they forbade the use of the number in ads, know they require it.
I was smart since I went the legal route and registered way back when it was not that common or promoted, now I can say I have been legally registered for all these years. It does help a little in showing potential customers you are legit. Technically it is crime to offer home improvement services with out being registered, but it is rampant and difficult to prove or stop.

They'll do a sting operation once a year and call all these ads in the local papers to come and quote a job at house and arrest them as they come in, but that does little to stop it, just look how many trucks are at Home Depot with no names on them. Far more of them than the legal contractors.

JB

 

[gbw]

Lots of good comments! Thanks to everyone.

We had the house measured a while back replacing carpeting w/ hardwood flooring. Just under 3000sf heated before we enclosed the sun porch. I don't know the exterior footprint. I't what I'd call a 1 1/2 story - 2 bedrooms, full bath, sitting room upstairs.

Looking closely at the roof, enough of the screws are loose or very rusty that to me it makes the most sense to replace them all. Too iffy trying to cherry-pick those that have backed out visibly, and too easy to miss those any are beginning to back out, or will soon. We'll do them all and be done with it. As far as anyone can tell the purlins are in good condition.

There are never perfect answers. I understand those who would do this job themselves. On other chores where I was competent I've done the same. I get the satisfaction of feeling self-reliant, of knowing it gets done the way one wants it done, and the benefit of saving a little money. Like many here I've built things on my own 'cause I couldn't buy them like I wanted. I understand.

I won't be doing this job. It's not anything I would enjoy doing and there are other things I do enjoy. It would involve locating, renting, picking up and returning equipment and materials, collecting and disposing of trash, etc.etc. Also learning, alone and on the fly, how best to use the tools and materials, and the safest way to work on a steep, high roof, which I have never done. I'm an engineer, not an expert on roofs, and I want this job done right and safely the first time.

I've also tried, twice, local "he's really an expert unlicensed works on his own but really good anyway try him you won't be sorry" guys. I was very sorry both times. Never again. I'll look for the best, most experienced pros I can find, almost regardless of cost, and trust them.

I know saving money is a usually a good thing and maybe I will pay more than the lowest possible price. I learned long ago that I'm better off spending my time at profitable things I understand, instead of trying to do things I don't know about hoping to save a few bucks - which sometimes doesn't work out anyhow. It's served me very well. Factor in the real risk of injury doing something like this roof job, alone or with amateur help for the first and only time, and doing it myself it makes no sense whatever to me.

 

[amaxwell]

GBW I agree with you 100%. I would not risk injury on a roof that steep for 2000 dollars. Yes 2000 dollars is a lot of money ,but how much would a hospital stay be ,for a fall? Get the pro's to do it and do it right. If it last another 17 to 20 years without problems, look how inexpensive per year it will be to stay dry and protected .

 

[clemsonfor]

You wouldn't be using my equipment to get up there. It's an insurance thing.
You want proof I have insurance, so you will understand when I tell you only me or my employee is allowed on my equipment.

You have a slightly hostile attitude, so I'm sure you would be doing this job yourself. That's fine, that means you are capable.
I'll just say the customer that is hostile or untrusting gets the lowest level of service. Just the bare minimum. The customer that is trusting and leaves you a check before the job is done will get the highest level of service, the most attention to detail.

I know that probably goes against the normal thinking, but that's how it is with me. The easier you make my life the more time I have to dedicate to the work on hand.

No offense to you personally of course, you are probably the type that is very handy and does not need to hire out often, so our paths would not likely cross.

JB.

Thats fine all you have to say is no you cant use my stuff. My home does not look like the OP's. Im on my roof all the time, i will put my ladder up there and climb onto MY OWN roof with MY OWN equipment. I have no problem with that, also i will not pay anyone for a job to be done before its done. Thats crazy have heard to many ripoff stories. Again remember even if i vet you i have no personal experience with you.

I am handy and can do and figure out stuff on my own, i just had my roof done, i DID NOT do it myself. I did not want to be up there for 2 months on the weekends replacing the 40 squares of shingles.

Sorry if im hostile sounding, i think we would get along fine, i say what i feel and how i feel. I know and understand folks have to make a profit, and have not said that the $2k is robbery, but i would try and rescrew the defect myself. I am not made of money and really cant afford to hand over 2 weeks pay on a job like this.

Not to pick on you, or anybody else who feels the same way, let me explain that one of the perks of being self employed is that I can decide what I want to charge and let you decide if you want to hire me or not. With so much work being available, and the fact that my clients are willing to wait 3 to six months for me to get to them, I can be both picky on who I work for, and charge what I want.

When I go to a house and the client is really nice, fun and a pleasure to be around, I tend to give them a better price. When I get to a house and the client is confrontational, insulting, rude and unpleasant, my price goes up considerably. I don't need the work, and I don't have any desire to work at a place where I will have somebody who knows more then me, works harder then me and feels the need to look over my shoulder all day long. For that, I charge what I feel will make such an experience worth my time. I do the same with painful jobs, nasty locations, and anything that I really just don't want to do.

Nobody is forcing you to hire me, so I don't have any problems with pricing myself out of the job. If you still want to hire me, then I'm charging what I feel it's worth to deal with you, and we're all good.

Just food for thought for anybody who wonders why they are being charged what they feel is too much for work on their place, but everybody else is getting work done for less. It might just be that nobody wants to work for you.

Eddie

One of the problems with the computer is that you only can judge my by what i write on here. You cant tell my caracter or that i would do anything for you once i know you or even after i meet you the first time if i feel your a good person.

And yes you own the biz you can price how you want, my advice is to not let on this to someone you may get sued if you do it to the wrong person for discrimination (not me as im white and i would not do this anyway but some one may) some sue-happy person. But dont want to deal with me set a price where you would and dont think i will pay it thats fine.

But even if i trust you (if i hire you i trust you to a degree already) i am still checking your work. Did not say i know it all or will question why you do everything, i may ask a question for my own knowlege but am not gonna look over your shoulder all day.

Ill give you an example. Say i want you to do a tearoff and reshingle (your probly not a roofer i know but i'll use this as were talking roofs here). If i leave all day and come home to a finished roof that looks great, and i left with my old roof how do i know you did what you said or what i wanted, or that your crew did if you were not there all day. I DONT! I can clearly see all the old shingles that were torn off so thats not what im talking about. Im talking more about # of nails per shingle, or nails in the right place on the shingle, ice dam, sticky stuff in the vallies like you say, tar paper, laid right (yes this is not hard i know).

When i come to inspect you in certain steps in the process you wont know what im looking for but once i see it thats fine ill leave you be for hours or the day just what i feel like. Come time for ridge vents, im gonna make sure you nail them enough. Yes you may think im picky but its my money my house and i want the job done right. YOu say you gaurantee your work, i beleive you i promise, but this is a bad economy and even the best folks can go under. What good is a gaurentee if your out of business in 7 years when i need you, i want to make sure its done right to manufacturer specs so hopefully there will be no problem.

There are certain things in jobs that you just cant see by looking at a finished product. This is more sounding like im coming down hard on you its because your a contractor that responded its nothing personal. Like i said i will do this on anyone. Today you just cant trust anyone, and good contractors i know invite inspection and questions if there curious about something. I dont want to be your assistant for the day or looking over your shoulder all day.

Here is another one that i know is in your daily work field. The guy wanting a shower in his bathroom on the current thread on here you mention a walk in shower. Lets take that example. I want my fiberglass tub outta my house and a tile shower install. If i leave in the AM and come home at 6pm how do i know whats behind there, i cant. If i specify i want cement board and Curdy then my tile, once im gone i have no way to know unless you agree to take pics through the install for me, willing to do that? I want to see what you do, if i like your plumbing, if you used cleaner on your PVC or just glue, did you put the Curdy i asked for in, or did you just put backer board, its impossible with out poping in on you during the day.

Sorry for the longwinded response. Im trying to let you see why i feel the way i do. Both of you are correct i do most all my stuff by myself. One i cant afford to hire a pro to do everything i every need done in any field and two its hard now to find someone you can trust on anything.

But Eddie or JB i have a feeling we would get along fine even if i hired either of you for a job. I pay cash for a work done when its due. In life the wife and i owe no one except the bank for our house and her student loans.



I know im not the only person that feels this way, most are either not the type person to say it or gonna bring it up here.

 

[EddieWalker]

... once im gone i have no way to know unless you agree to take pics through the install for me, willing to do that? I want to see what you do, if i like your plumbing, if you used cleaner on your PVC or just glue, did you put the Curdy i asked for in, or did you just put backer board, its impossible with out poping in on you during the day.

Since you asked, I post pics of what I do on facebook, while I'm doing it. I like sharing what I'm doing and the steps that I'm taking. I'm booked up till summer right now with several phone calls a week about new jobs. Posting those pictures gets my facebook friends excited and interested. Everyone loves a good remodel, and my before and after pics are pretty good.

Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

I want to see what you do, if i like your plumbing, if you used cleaner on your PVC or just glue,

Just for general knowledge, PVC pipe is joined by using purple primer that isn't actualy a primer. It is a conditioner that softens the PVC. Then you use clear glue that really isn't glue. It is a chemical that reacts to the purple primer and melts the PVC together.

There is glue for PVC, but it's not very effective and should never be used on PVC lines that have pressure on them.

Eddie