3 point hitch Logging Grapple setup-to compliment my FEL grapple in the woods.

[Piston]

There isn't a boatload of information on 3pt hitch logging grapples (or would "bucket load" be more appropriate?) so I thought I would start a thread to discuss them before I make a purchase....or rather, to see if I SHOULD make a purchase :thumbsup:

My specific uses for the logging grapple, will be skidding out small to medium sized pines (10"-18" DBH) from my 30 acres in Central NH. At first I will be clearing the land for a driveway (700'-800') and a building lot, roughly 5 acres. Then it will be general thinning from there on out, with some occasional clear cuts of less than one acre to make small fields.
I will also skid out smallish (less than 15"DBH) hardwoods for firewood. The Pine that is large enough will be used for my mill. I'll probably burn the smaller pines.
Obviously, I don't NEED a log grapple to do the work, it's more of something I want, but I'd like to get something that fits my needs the best if I'm gonna be spending the money.

I've looked at the following so far: (not in person, just online)

Wallenstein LX5100
LX5100 Log Grapple - Wallenstein

Wallenstein LX 480
LX480 Log Grapple - Wallenstein

Valby SGR 48
SGR48

Addington grapple (smaller of the two)
Grapples, Addington Equipment

I've seen some pics of the Iron and Oak one
and the 'log skidder' that Northern Hydraulics sells.

Some of my considerations are:
I will be putting it on my 45hp Kubota, my rears are filled with 1,100lbs of RimGuard, and I will have my FEL grapple on.

I am so far leaning towards either the Wallenstein or the Addington. I haven't received any info on pricing of the Addington but I like that it is built in NH and I wouldn't have to pay shipping.

Wallenstein:
The low weight of the unit worries me, I know the less weight the grapple weighs, the heavier log I can pick up. The worry is, when I don't have a lot of weight in the grapple, will it be too light when I'm doing FEL work with my FEL grapple? I will still be lifting a lot of stumps, small logs, and piling trees/brush, and don't want the rear end to be too light.
I like that the the Wallenstein grapples have the full swiveling grapple. I don't like how 'curved' the LX5100 is, it looks like it would be tough for me to find a good place to mount my winch.

The Lx4800 is discontinued, and probably tough to find, but looks like something I'd really like, except for the super low weight. The price would be better since the few I've found are discounted since they're the 'old style' now. I also like that there are a lot less 'curves' than the new LX5100, the more straight sections there are, the easier it is for me to weld back together if something breaks.

Valby SGR48
I like how the pivot point is close to the tractor. I don't like how the grapple itself doesn't swivel side to side, and especially back and forth. I think the more 'linkage' there is the better, and the more rigid things are the more chance of shock loading my top link, in turn putting a lot more shock load on the top link casting, where it attaches to the tractor.
The valby doesn't have a real 'grapple' on it, it's more some shaped steel with a hydraulic ram, rather than something I can detach and use on the backhoe.

Addington
I think the Addington is a great looking grapple from what I see, but it might be almost TOO heavy duty for me. Plus I don't think I can weld the T-1 steel if something breaks? But then again, it looks heavy duty enough to where it wouldn't break. This might be a little TOO much for my little tractor. I also don't know if I can detach that grapple very easy.

I think the perfect grapple for me would be a cross between the Wallenstein LX4800 and the Valby SGR 48, with a little extra weight on it. I like the grapple on the Wallenstien with the full swivel design, and I like the hinge point near the tractor on the Valby.



-I'd like to be able to weld a 2" receiver hitch to the grapple frame, so I can use my small winch with it.

-I'd like it to weigh at least 500lbs, although on the other hand, the less stress on the top link the better, but I still want good traction, this is tough trade off.

-I'd like the grapple to be the traditional bypass grapple like the Wallenstein, this way if I ever decide to in the future, I could easily add quick disconnects to the grapple itself, detach it from the log skidding frame, and attach it to the backhoe for log handling, I could see this coming in very useful around the sawmill and log splitter.

Cost is sort of an issue, I'd say more 'value' is the biggest issue over cost. I don't mind spending more if I'm getting a lot more for my dollar. I'll call some places today and check on some pricing and availability.


Can anyone who has any experience with (or has done a lot of research) give there opinions on what may work well for my situation?

What are your thoughts and opinions on the different styles?

If I am aware of the stresses put on the top link, and don't beat the heck out of my tractor and try doing wheelies with a large log on the back, do you think there is a high risk of doing some serious danger to the tractor top link connecting area? This is really my biggest concern.

 

[s219]

I'm not seeing the point of a rear grapple on a tractor. I almost think a skidding plate and/or skidding winch would make more sense. Or just get a log arch or skidding frame for the three-point, and use the three-point hydraulics to lift the butts off the ground.

In any case, I think it's advisable to have some of the pulling go to the drawbar. You're asking for wheelies to only pull from up high.

 

[jpm1]

Piston. . . .I understand what you are saying because i was in the same way. It was something i wanted. I have a farmi winch and thought about repalcing it with a grapple because face it a winch is hard on your tractor, i know last April i broke the rear end housing on one of my tractors, its repaired and all is for the better. My land is in places very rough and rocky, hilly and some really deep muddy holes all which is where my good wood is located. I almost pulled the trigger on a grapple which was going to be the Wallenstein LX5100
Log Grapple but decided to stay with the Farmi winch, it serves my purpose well and owes me nothing . . .John
P.S. the tractor breakage was an ID10T error! :laughing: :laughing:

 

[Piston]

I'm not seeing the point of a rear grapple on a tractor.....

I forget who said it, but I remember reading from someone on here that the less you have to get off the tractor, the better.....and I fully agree with that statement :laughing: Try hooking up a logging winch or log arch without getting off the tractor.

Here is a pic of the log arch I built. It works great, but the few minutes of setup time it takes per log, really adds up at the end of a day.

The grapple skidder is simple, back up, grab on, and go. That's the point of a one.

Piston. . . .I understand what you are saying because i was in the same way. It was something i wanted. I have a farmi winch and thought about repalcing it with a grapple because face it a winch is hard on your tractor, i know last April i broke the rear end housing on one of my tractors, its repaired and all is for the better. My land is in places very rough and rocky, hilly and some really deep muddy holes all which is where my good wood is located. I almost pulled the trigger on a grapple which was going to be the Wallenstein LX5100
Log Grapple but decided to stay with the Farmi winch, it serves my purpose well and owes me nothing . . .John

JPM1,
You were smart to keep your winch and not trade in for a grapple. I do think a winch is generally more useful than a grapple and that the grapple is only advantageous for specific situations. My thoughts are that I will get the grapple now, and probably sell it to buy a winch in the future if the need arises. However, depending on how good/bad the grapple works, I may or may not keep it. I'm hoping some more people have experience with the grapple style skidder.

Even on the Valby site it specifies recommendations for the grapple vs. winch. My land does have hilly, muddy areas that I can't get to with the tractor, however for now my main concern is clearing land for the driveway/building site, and that site is only gently sloping at worst.

Here are a couple pics of the log arch I built.

 

[Ken45101]

Very interesting. I would be interested in seeing what the prices are If the prices are up at the level of the Farmi logging winches, it would seem that they would be a better choice in that they can drag stuff to the tractor that the tractor cannot get to. OTOH, if it's all accessible to the tractor, then a grapple like these can do an easier job of grouping a bunch of stems together.

Of course the videos shows nice delimbed, long trunks.

I can certainly understand skidding out full length stems where they are going to be milled, but for firewood, what's the advantage of hauling full stems versus bucking in the woods? I haven't figured that one out yet. Which is better?

I did bring out some logs with the grapple one time but had such clearance issues along the trail that I don't think I'll do that again.

I'll be interested in the discussion.

Ken

 

[Code54]

Could you make a "weight" out of concrete (or use a big chunk of wood, etc you can just grab) to help add weight to the lighter grapple if you need weight for lifting with the FEL? Sounds like you really like the Wallenstein and this may help with the light weight issue?

 

[Zebrafive]

I like the look of the Addington unit. I would want the larger one since I have an 85HP tractor. Interested to see what pricing would be.

My reason to skid the logs out of the woods would be so I could set an area for "you cut" to sell wood and save myself the work of cutting and splitting. I think one area out of the woods for this would be more managable.

Not to hi-jack the post, my original idea was to build something like an engine crane (cherry picker) to mount on the 3pt hitch. It would have a hydraulic cylinder, not a jack for lifting. 3pt hitch would only be used for mounting, no lifting. I have not determined how long the lift arm should be or what size cylinder to use. I was planning to just chain around the log, no grapple. This was before I knew there were rear mount grapples for tractors.

 

[jpm1]

Ken45101
You said, "I can certainly understand skidding out full length stems where they are going to be milled, but for firewood, what's the advantage of hauling full stems versus bucking in the woods? I haven't figured that one out yet. Which is better?"
Well for me it has been a way of life. We use to cut so much wood having it all in one general area helped alot not having to pick up 1 cord here, 5 cord there, 10 cord in a hole somewhere that is out of sight,our land is rought, dense and muddy, less damage on tractors if you can understand that part of it. You will say now " what about the dirt/mud issue on the logs?" this can be a problem but i like working in one central location and for the most part i can get about 13 "face cord" on my chain a day before sharpening, which is usually done at the end of the day. Lastly, Dad and i thought there was a since of "accomplishment" seeing a BIG PILE of logs at the end of the day and this a better way for us (at least) in "guess-ta-mating" how much wood we have. Also its quicker and safer to those cutting up blocks, no brush to get your feet tangled up with. Heres a picture of my uncle Jerry behind my house cutting some of his wood and one of the piles of my logs on the cutting deck this year. . .John
SORRY PISTON, i didn't mean to steal your thread. . .John

 

[Gordon Gould]

I can certainly understand skidding out full length stems where they are going to be milled, but for firewood, what's the advantage of hauling full stems versus bucking in the woods? I haven't figured that one out yet. Which is better?Ken

When I first started cutting firewood I would "buy" a five cord lot in the state forest for $5. The state marked the trees to cut. You had to take all that were marked. It was a thinning and improvement operation. It was also on a steep hillside. We felled the trees and blocked them where they lay. Then carried each block by hand to where you could get the truck. Sometimes 40 yards or more.

Using a winch and skidding them to a landing is a dream compared to that :laughing:

 

[s219]

I forget who said it, but I remember reading from someone on here that the less you have to get off the tractor, the better.....and I fully agree with that statement :laughing: Try hooking up a logging winch or log arch without getting off the tractor.

Yeah, that is a real good point in favor of the grapple. I have heard other people say they can skid with logging tongs and not have to get off the tractor, but not with my luck.

 

[s219]

I can certainly understand skidding out full length stems where they are going to be milled, but for firewood, what's the advantage of hauling full stems versus bucking in the woods? I haven't figured that one out yet. Which is better?

I did bring out some logs with the grapple one time but had such clearance issues along the trail that I don't think I'll do that again.

I think it comes down to time and material handling. The sooner you cut/split the log, the more handling there will be down the road. When I look back on the old way I used to process firewood, I probably handled each split at least 8 times. That's counting from the time the bucked round was lifted off the ground to the time the final split was put in a stove. That's OK if you like the exercise, but could get out of hand for people who sell firewood or process large quantities of it -- you'd waste a lot of time/fuel handling the wood.

In general, to minimize handling, you want to move the wood in the fewest/biggest pieces possible. There's also the work planning process -- sometimes it makes sense to do all the felling one day, then bucking another day, then splitting yet another. Could align with season, weather, daylight, people, critters/pests, equipment rental, etc... And even workflow comes into play -- I find I am more efficient if I do only chainsaw work one day, then only tractor the next. Trying to do them both interchangeably is inefficient for me -- changing gears slows me down.

I'm in the process of clearing some new land for a house, and right now the focus is cutting a road in. The way I am placing brush piles and stacks of wood wouldn't make sense for long term firewood processing at all, but it's the best way to do it now. I couldn't begin to skid until the road is in, yet I can't travel the road if there are logs all over the place. So I have a lot of little wood piles off to the side. As soon as the road is in, I will have a day where I just drive around gathering the wood to stockpile in a central place for later splitting and stacking. At that point, each round will have been handled 3 times before splitting -- once from ground to pile, once from pile to trailer, and once from trailer to new pile. Lift onto splitter adds one more, then lift a split onto pile again. I'll be up to 5 handles per split at that point. Later, there will be three more before it gets into the stove. There's that magic 8 number again . I could maybe shave off 1-2 handles if I can get everything on the trailer at once and don't need to unload off the trailer right away, but that's not a guarantee.

Once the road is in and we get a large scale clearing permit, then I will have some big wood to cut. I plan to really think carefully about the whole process before diving in. There I will be skidding logs if at all possible.

The real travesty will come when we eventually move into this new place. I will have at least a cord of wood at my current house that needs to be relocated. Moving a stack of split wood 15 miles will probably be some of the most inefficient work I have done.... That's at least 2 more times handling each split. I'm beginning to feel like a conveyor belt.

 

[Ken45101]

JPM,

Thanks for your comments and the photos. I considered sending this private since I didn't want to cause thread drift, but it's sort of on the topic anyway, so here goes:

Nice pile of logs you have there. But if that's what you are using for firewood, obviously you are leaving a lot of smaller (12" and less?) in the woods. I know, I hate cutting up and handling the branches and tops, but there's a lot of firewood there too. Do you just leave that on the ground in the woods?

I know a lot of guys just process the tops after the loggers are done. Where does one draw the line?

I'm going to have to give dragging some long logs in and see how that goes compared to cutting it up on site.

Thanks for your insight.

Ken

 

[Piston]

Very interesting. I would be interested in seeing what the prices are If the prices are up at the level of the Farmi logging winches, it would seem that they would be a better choice in that they can drag stuff to the tractor that the tractor cannot get to. OTOH, if it's all accessible to the tractor, then a grapple like these can do an easier job of grouping a bunch of stems together.

I was able to get some prices. Here is what I was quoted or found advertised online:

Wallenstein LX5100 - $2,400

Wallenstein LX 480 - $1,900 on sale as discontinued model, but it's pick up only and its in Kentucky, too far for me

Valby SGR 48 $1,400 - Most appealing price, but I just don't like the design. I like the hinge near the tractor, but other than that, it doesn't seem like I'm getting a good 'value' with this grapple. It doesn't look as rugged as the others, and I really don't like the rigid design of the grapple, also, can't detach the grapple and use with the backhoe if I wanted to in the future.

Iron and Oak - $3,600 according to their website - Too expensive for me, but I really like the design. It seems simple, rugged, easy to fix or modify, easy to mount my winch on, good weight, and I like the grapple. So far this is my new favorite. I would love to come across a used one of these!
Iron & Oak Commercial Log Splitters - PRODUCTS

Addington ????
This is one heavy duty grapple! I spoke with the company for a quote, and actually I couldn't get a price out of him. The reason is that the ones on the website (which he told me was outdated) are built for commercial use, and are way more than I would need. He said those ones are close to $8,000, but that he was working on a smaller, lighter model for tractors my size, even though he advertises one for my size on the site. I was actually confused after talking with him about the price, seems like the one he is working on that would be good for me, would be around $4,000-$4,500. I'd LOVE to come across a used one of these for a good price, seems like you couldn't kill the thing if you tried. However, its more than I need, and way more than I'm willing to spend. This thing seems like you could sharpen the grapple edges and use it as a tree shear!


I have found that some of these grapples (Addington in particular) are obviously MORE expensive than a skidding winch. I won't spend that kind of money on one.
I'm now considering buying a grapple, as in the grapple head only, and building my own. Not so much for cost savings (well that too) but also because I can't seem to settle on one, I don't "love" any. I'm thinking if I take each attribute that I like from each model, and put them all together, I could come up with my own ideal grapple for my uses. I also enjoy building things like this, but I'm not sure I have the time. Anyways, I'm considering it. :laughing:

Could you make a "weight" out of concrete (or use a big chunk of wood, etc you can just grab) to help add weight to the lighter grapple if you need weight for lifting with the FEL? Sounds like you really like the Wallenstein and this may help with the light weight issue?

Good idea with adding weight to the unit, I think something I put down and pick up again (sounds like that commercial, "I pick things up and put them down":laughing would be soon be lost or forgotten in the woods
I do like the Wallenstein, but I don't like how it is so 'curved' as it seems more complicated than it needs to be, as in, harder to fix if something breaks, as well as difficult to weld the winch to. Hmmm.

Not to hi-jack the post, my original idea was to build something like an engine crane (cherry picker) to mount on the 3pt hitch.

Zebra 5, that is a really good idea.


About skidding whole trees vs. cutting them up into logs and skidding them that way.....Well, I just think it makes so much more sense? I would rather skid once, then cut up into logs at one spot, than cut up into logs, then skid 2-3 times, and still have to deal with the brush/tops.
For me, it's more a principal of efficiency. I won't be able to pull trees out of the way as fast as they will be getting knocked down, so I want to minimize the time as much as possible.


Winches: I was quoted $5,000 for the Farmi 501, which is what I would get if I were to get one.

I also looked into the Wallenstein FX90, $3,900. Much better price point and I would probably buy this over the Iron and Oak skidder for $3,600. Only problem is, I really can't spend that much money to begin with. I do think the FX90 seems like a good value though. I will also keep my eyes open for one of these winches, on the used market.

 

[Zebrafive]

I 've found the Iron and Oak 3pt hitch model for $3100 shipped online.

 

[waggy5]

Hi there. I am in the process of building a logging grapple/winch combo. It is based on a Farmi JL601. This is a serious winch which can pull anything a farm tractor up to about 130-150 hp tractor can handle. I needed to be able to winch in a load and then just lower the grapple, grab, lift, and then go!
I will post pics when done.

 

[Piston]

Waggy, that sounds interesting, I had a similar idea but don't have a tractor nearly large enough to handle that :laughing:

What size tractor are you putting this on? Must be big enough to dwarf mine

 

[kneejerk]

Simpler and less expensive.

A less expensive alternative.








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