3 point hitch Logging Grapple setup-to compliment my FEL grapple in the woods.

s219 · Feb 1, 2012

Ken45101 said:
I can certainly understand skidding out full length stems where they are going to be milled, but for firewood, what's the advantage of hauling full stems versus bucking in the woods? I haven't figured that one out yet. Which is better?

I did bring out some logs with the grapple one time but had such clearance issues along the trail that I don't think I'll do that again.

I think it comes down to time and material handling. The sooner you cut/split the log, the more handling there will be down the road. When I look back on the old way I used to process firewood, I probably handled each split at least 8 times. That's counting from the time the bucked round was lifted off the ground to the time the final split was put in a stove. That's OK if you like the exercise, but could get out of hand for people who sell firewood or process large quantities of it -- you'd waste a lot of time/fuel handling the wood.

In general, to minimize handling, you want to move the wood in the fewest/biggest pieces possible. There's also the work planning process -- sometimes it makes sense to do all the felling one day, then bucking another day, then splitting yet another. Could align with season, weather, daylight, people, critters/pests, equipment rental, etc... And even workflow comes into play -- I find I am more efficient if I do only chainsaw work one day, then only tractor the next. Trying to do them both interchangeably is inefficient for me -- changing gears slows me down.

I'm in the process of clearing some new land for a house, and right now the focus is cutting a road in. The way I am placing brush piles and stacks of wood wouldn't make sense for long term firewood processing at all, but it's the best way to do it now. I couldn't begin to skid until the road is in, yet I can't travel the road if there are logs all over the place. So I have a lot of little wood piles off to the side. As soon as the road is in, I will have a day where I just drive around gathering the wood to stockpile in a central place for later splitting and stacking. At that point, each round will have been handled 3 times before splitting -- once from ground to pile, once from pile to trailer, and once from trailer to new pile. Lift onto splitter adds one more, then lift a split onto pile again. I'll be up to 5 handles per split at that point. Later, there will be three more before it gets into the stove. There's that magic 8 number again

. I could maybe shave off 1-2 handles if I can get everything on the trailer at once and don't need to unload off the trailer right away, but that's not a guarantee.

Once the road is in and we get a large scale clearing permit, then I will have some big wood to cut. I plan to really think carefully about the whole process before diving in. There I will be skidding logs if at all possible.

The real travesty will come when we eventually move into this new place. I will have at least a cord of wood at my current house that needs to be relocated. Moving a stack of split wood 15 miles will probably be some of the most inefficient work I have done.... That's at least 2 more times handling each split. I'm beginning to feel like a conveyor belt.

Ken45101 · Feb 1, 2012

JPM,

Thanks for your comments and the photos. I considered sending this private since I didn't want to cause thread drift, but it's sort of on the topic anyway, so here goes:

Nice pile of logs you have there. But if that's what you are using for firewood, obviously you are leaving a lot of smaller (12" and less?) in the woods. I know, I hate cutting up and handling the branches and tops, but there's a lot of firewood there too. Do you just leave that on the ground in the woods?

I know a lot of guys just process the tops after the loggers are done. Where does one draw the line?

I'm going to have to give dragging some long logs in and see how that goes compared to cutting it up on site.

Thanks for your insight.

Ken

Piston · Feb 1, 2012

Very interesting. I would be interested in seeing what the prices are If the prices are up at the level of the Farmi logging winches, it would seem that they would be a better choice in that they can drag stuff to the tractor that the tractor cannot get to. OTOH, if it's all accessible to the tractor, then a grapple like these can do an easier job of grouping a bunch of stems together.

I was able to get some prices. Here is what I was quoted or found advertised online:

Wallenstein LX5100 - $2,400

Wallenstein LX 480 - $1,900 on sale as discontinued model, but it's pick up only and its in Kentucky, too far for me

Valby SGR 48 $1,400 - Most appealing price, but I just don't like the design. I like the hinge near the tractor, but other than that, it doesn't seem like I'm getting a good 'value' with this grapple. It doesn't look as rugged as the others, and I really don't like the rigid design of the grapple, also, can't detach the grapple and use with the backhoe if I wanted to in the future.

Iron and Oak - $3,600 according to their website - Too expensive for me, but I really like the design. It seems simple, rugged, easy to fix or modify, easy to mount my winch on, good weight, and I like the grapple. So far this is my new favorite. I would love to come across a used one of these!
Iron & Oak Commercial Log Splitters - PRODUCTS

Addington ????
This is one heavy duty grapple! I spoke with the company for a quote, and actually I couldn't get a price out of him. The reason is that the ones on the website (which he told me was outdated) are built for commercial use, and are way more than I would need. He said those ones are close to $8,000, but that he was working on a smaller, lighter model for tractors my size, even though he advertises one for my size on the site. I was actually confused after talking with him about the price, seems like the one he is working on that would be good for me, would be around $4,000-$4,500. I'd LOVE to come across a used one of these for a good price, seems like you couldn't kill the thing if you tried. However, its more than I need, and way more than I'm willing to spend. This thing seems like you could sharpen the grapple edges and use it as a tree shear!

I have found that some of these grapples (Addington in particular) are obviously MORE expensive than a skidding winch. I won't spend that kind of money on one.
I'm now considering buying a grapple, as in the grapple head only, and building my own. Not so much for cost savings (well that too) but also because I can't seem to settle on one, I don't "love" any. I'm thinking if I take each attribute that I like from each model, and put them all together, I could come up with my own ideal grapple for my uses. I also enjoy building things like this, but I'm not sure I have the time. Anyways, I'm considering it. :laughing:

Could you make a "weight" out of concrete (or use a big chunk of wood, etc you can just grab) to help add weight to the lighter grapple if you need weight for lifting with the FEL? Sounds like you really like the Wallenstein and this may help with the light weight issue?

Good idea with adding weight to the unit, I think something I put down and pick up again (sounds like that commercial, "I pick things up and put them down":laughing

would be soon be lost or forgotten in the woods

I do like the Wallenstein, but I don't like how it is so 'curved' as it seems more complicated than it needs to be, as in, harder to fix if something breaks, as well as difficult to weld the winch to. Hmmm.

Not to hi-jack the post, my original idea was to build something like an engine crane (cherry picker) to mount on the 3pt hitch.

Zebra 5, that is a really good idea.

About skidding whole trees vs. cutting them up into logs and skidding them that way.....Well, I just think it makes so much more sense? I would rather skid once, then cut up into logs at one spot, than cut up into logs, then skid 2-3 times, and still have to deal with the brush/tops.
For me, it's more a principal of efficiency. I won't be able to pull trees out of the way as fast as they will be getting knocked down, so I want to minimize the time as much as possible.

Winches: I was quoted $5,000 for the Farmi 501, which is what I would get if I were to get one.

I also looked into the Wallenstein FX90, $3,900. Much better price point and I would probably buy this over the Iron and Oak skidder for $3,600. Only problem is, I really can't spend that much money to begin with. I do think the FX90 seems like a good value though. I will also keep my eyes open for one of these winches, on the used market.

Zebrafive · Feb 2, 2012

I 've found the Iron and Oak 3pt hitch model for $3100 shipped online.

waggy5 · Feb 18, 2012

Hi there. I am in the process of building a logging grapple/winch combo. It is based on a Farmi JL601. This is a serious winch which can pull anything a farm tractor up to about 130-150 hp tractor can handle. I needed to be able to winch in a load and then just lower the grapple, grab, lift, and then go!
I will post pics when done.

Piston · Feb 18, 2012

Waggy, that sounds interesting, I had a similar idea but don't have a tractor nearly large enough to handle that :laughing:

What size tractor are you putting this on? Must be big enough to dwarf mine