Very similar to my off grid set up:
2 VFX3648, 8 Rolls 530s batts, MPPT 60 and 80, etc.
I'm considering having a solar panel electrical system installed.
- Thread starter donb2
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Very similar to my off grid set up:
2 VFX3648, 8 Rolls 530s batts, MPPT 60 and 80, etc.
Alternate energy is the people's energy. Here's why:
When you fill your car at the pump your money goes to a small group of people with a lot of clout in Washington. Take a look at the lobbies that are now controlling this country and the huge amounts of money they are pumping into it. Now corporations have the rights of individuals. That means they elect our senators, congress and president.
When you create your own power, whether through PV, wind, etc. you are enabling your own autonomy and that means less money to corporate control that now dictates how we all live.
My PV arrays benefit me and everyone in our electric coop, everyone's rates are reduced.
My PV arrays mean less pollution from coal, the major pollution in this country comes from coal in the forms of acid rain, etc. Coal companies could use scrubbers to change this but their lobbies are so strong that it's cheaper for them to pay a small fine than to clean up their stacks. Take a look at WV, trillions of dollars going to Massey Industries from coal and yet WV is one of the poorest most poluted states.
My energy Independence also means that I'm not adding to the coffers of terrorists who want to destroy us.
PV diversifies the grid which equates to a stronger infrastructure. Single point energy stops when that energy source is interrupted.
So when we think of the benefits of renewables we should include these facts.
Rob
When you fill your car at the pump your money goes to a small group of people with a lot of clout in Washington. Take a look at the lobbies that are now controlling this country and the huge amounts of money they are pumping into it. Now corporations have the rights of individuals. That means they elect our senators, congress and president.
When you create your own power, whether through PV, wind, etc. you are enabling your own autonomy and that means less money to corporate control that now dictates how we all live.
My PV arrays benefit me and everyone in our electric coop, everyone's rates are reduced.
My PV arrays mean less pollution from coal, the major pollution in this country comes from coal in the forms of acid rain, etc. Coal companies could use scrubbers to change this but their lobbies are so strong that it's cheaper for them to pay a small fine than to clean up their stacks. Take a look at WV, trillions of dollars going to Massey Industries from coal and yet WV is one of the poorest most poluted states.
My energy Independence also means that I'm not adding to the coffers of terrorists who want to destroy us.
PV diversifies the grid which equates to a stronger infrastructure. Single point energy stops when that energy source is interrupted.
So when we think of the benefits of renewables we should include these facts.
Rob
newbury
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Been following this thread for a while and it seems that part of the problem is the variable support from government sources and part is that there are people like LD1 who have become accustomed to cheap power and don't care to change.
Govt support
Back in the mid '80's there was a big tax deduction for solar energy and a LOT of contractors sprung up installing solar hot water systems on rooftops. The pricing structure was (materials + honest labor cost + whatever they thought you could rip from the government). Many systems were installed in my area, poorly designed, poorly functioning, causing leaking roofs and later ripped down.
All costing many thousands of dollars more than they were worth, but essentially paid for by the public via Uncle Sam.
I myself installed more than 30 storm windows and got back from the govt about $180 (30% of window cost, no labor cost, DIY).
So now I can see a big push for solar support letting someone basically get it for free with the rest of the US taxpayers paying for it.
So cash in while the getting's good.
People who use a lot of energy because it was cheap and don't want to change their ways -
That's their choice. Just like people who borrow to much money then scream when they have to pay it back at the rate they signed up for.
Too many Americans seemed to have been weaned on cheap gas and electricity. Too bad. You like the temp 70 degree in the summer? Move or pay for it. Since I've been living away from my fathers temperature regulation I've tried to maintain a living range of 58 degrees to 78 degrees. Our heating and cooling bills are low. SWMBO's complaints are high at the start of a season but she becomes acclimated to it quickly. And we've saved thousands compared to friends who like to live at 70 or 72 year around.
The slight down side is we can't save much more by installing new windows, a more efficient furnace, etc. on our present home in Va.
I'm looking into solar and other tax payer subsidized systems for the house we bought in Ms.
Govt support
Back in the mid '80's there was a big tax deduction for solar energy and a LOT of contractors sprung up installing solar hot water systems on rooftops. The pricing structure was (materials + honest labor cost + whatever they thought you could rip from the government). Many systems were installed in my area, poorly designed, poorly functioning, causing leaking roofs and later ripped down.
All costing many thousands of dollars more than they were worth, but essentially paid for by the public via Uncle Sam.
I myself installed more than 30 storm windows and got back from the govt about $180 (30% of window cost, no labor cost, DIY).
So now I can see a big push for solar support letting someone basically get it for free with the rest of the US taxpayers paying for it.
So cash in while the getting's good.
People who use a lot of energy because it was cheap and don't want to change their ways -
That's their choice. Just like people who borrow to much money then scream when they have to pay it back at the rate they signed up for.
Too many Americans seemed to have been weaned on cheap gas and electricity. Too bad. You like the temp 70 degree in the summer? Move or pay for it. Since I've been living away from my fathers temperature regulation I've tried to maintain a living range of 58 degrees to 78 degrees. Our heating and cooling bills are low. SWMBO's complaints are high at the start of a season but she becomes acclimated to it quickly. And we've saved thousands compared to friends who like to live at 70 or 72 year around.
The slight down side is we can't save much more by installing new windows, a more efficient furnace, etc. on our present home in Va.
I'm looking into solar and other tax payer subsidized systems for the house we bought in Ms.
LD1
Epic Contributor
I wish it was that easy. Here is a quote from this link Generating Your Own Electricity: Net Metering - PUCO
I have a rural coop for electric. And unfortunatally, based on the above, they dont have to offer net-metering but they "can" if the want.
I have called them. They dont. Simple as that.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Hey rob: you said you were considering wind turbines?
How much are those/watt. I have briefly looked that them and I guess one of my biggest fears (besides COP) is that there are SOOOO many comanies and websites selling this stuff, and I know a LOT of it is just chinese junk, and I dont want to get a box full of crap for a lot of $$$$.
Anyways, I came across this Residential Wind Turbine Grid Tie Kit and it has me intrugued. 500W for $900:thumbsup: Thats less than $2/watt and thats BEFORE rebates. That may cut the COP down enough to where I would be interested. Lets say it truly is 0.5kwh and lets say it only runs 8 hours a day....that would generate 120kwh/month...or at my rate, $13/month. Thats a ~70 month payback not counting the rebates. If I take 30% off the $900, that brings the cost to $630 and payback in 48 months:thumbsup:
But for all I know they could just be junk??
Edit: they also list a 1kw one for UNDER $1000 Edit again, I just seen that was turbine only. over 2k for kit
RobertN
Super Member
Our setup was about $24k installed, after rebates. Our bill for last year total was about $350. Most of that was because when the kid got back from Scout camp late last summer, he cranked the AC... We were running $200-300/month electric bill, higher in summer with AC going.
Our house is all electric... Except for the woodstove, which we use a lot in the winter(regardless of our solar stuff).
It only cost a few hundred dollars mor for a bigger inverter, so we went with a 6KW. eventually we'd like to add another 1KW of panels.
We had the solar hot water put in a year before the panels. It is solar over electric. The solar portion is a heat exchanger in the water heater. Electric part has been running during the last 10 days of heavy overcast/rain.
I have to look at home; we can plot out power for hour/day/month.
When we specced the system, payout was about 10 years, at todays rates. Here in Calif though, the rates keep going up and up and up...
Without papers in front of me, I think lifetime was 20 or 25 year. BUT... That was not to failure. They derate a little over time. Our panels dropped a few percentage points at that time(95% efficient to 92% or something like that... again do not have paper here in front of me).
When we reroofed right before having the solar installed, we also added solar attic vent/fan.
Our house is all electric... Except for the woodstove, which we use a lot in the winter(regardless of our solar stuff).
It only cost a few hundred dollars mor for a bigger inverter, so we went with a 6KW. eventually we'd like to add another 1KW of panels.
We had the solar hot water put in a year before the panels. It is solar over electric. The solar portion is a heat exchanger in the water heater. Electric part has been running during the last 10 days of heavy overcast/rain.
I have to look at home; we can plot out power for hour/day/month.
When we specced the system, payout was about 10 years, at todays rates. Here in Calif though, the rates keep going up and up and up...
Without papers in front of me, I think lifetime was 20 or 25 year. BUT... That was not to failure. They derate a little over time. Our panels dropped a few percentage points at that time(95% efficient to 92% or something like that... again do not have paper here in front of me).
When we reroofed right before having the solar installed, we also added solar attic vent/fan.
RobertN
Super Member
This is my disappointment. After years in high-tech, and seeing various US Fab's shut down, it gets me that more of this is not fabbed in the States. I know the technology is different, but at same time I have seen AMD, TI, Intel, and others shut down Fabs. They all have the technology to make some nice Si...
But, that is the way of everything else... Drills, microwaves etc... Or cell phones... Not a one made in the US...
But, that is the way of everything else... Drills, microwaves etc... Or cell phones... Not a one made in the US...
beppington
Elite Member
It must simply be cheaper to make things outside the US right now. Your disappointment should prob be directed at our govt, not companies that decide for themselves how to best profit.
LD1
Epic Contributor
So to sum it up, you were ~$5/watt installed, and COP was 10 years correct?
That 10 year payback is based on what electric rate? Mine is 0.11/kwh, while not the best (I hear people on here say they are in the 7-8 cent range which I was also until about 1.5years ago) but my 0.11 certainly isnt the worst. Hearing people @ 0.30/kwh just blows my mind. If my rates were THAT high, payback would be MUCH quicker. Since @ my average of 2000kwh usage, I would have $600 electric bills and not $200-220.
SPYDERLK
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Thats where I am. Thers no grid connection option here. When there is, and prices come down a bit, I want to put in 10,000+ square feet of panels. Output on hi sun should be about 100KW at todays cell efficiency. That should run a net income year round and power my farm free. I dont want to get into batteries. Grid tie is capable of handling everything except the the actual solar generation.
larry