How to rig an X595 to mow in reverse

[ccsial]

As far as I know the X748SE is nearly identical to the X595. Can you tell me exactly how you did it on yours.

I also have a GX345 which I put a jumper wire on, but with the 595 I don't have access to the back of the ignition as with the 345. Is it basically done the same way? Ok let me know.

Thanks
Carl B

Carl,

Check your private messages.

Al

 

[brada]

I just bought an X595 and wanted to know if anyone knows how set it up so it can mow in reverse. It was very simple to do on my GX345 , but the 595 seems a bit more complicated. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

RIO
I got soooo used to reaching for the switch, it became useless to me. I would grab the switch really fast and slam it into reverse with the blades running. Became auto matic for me. I do not have kids, but dogs. So, I set the safety switch such that I could push the back up pedal very lightly without the blades shutting off. I can now mow very slowly in reverse. If I tried to go fast, the blades shut off. There is no right answer. As someone said earlier, pulling the RIO switch become second nature.

 

[jenkinsph]

Works for me,

 

[Dutch445]

Every manufacturer has to have this RIO system in place, and unfortunately it is migrating
into the CUTS with mower decks.
Some have mentioned it's more for legal reasons than safety, and I would venture
that is probably the biggest driver for the system. Transfer of Liability.
Once you put a switch like this on a mower, then the operator has taken
the liability of mowing in reverse away from the manufacturer and put it
on him/herself. Whether they actually look back or not doesn't matter.
There are many stories of the injuries caused by lawn mowers, both going
forward and reverse, kids falling off, people rolling down hills, all tragic.
Unfortunately, a switch like this does not fix the root of the problem, which
in many cases seems to be mostly caused by poor judgement of the operator.

What are the other manufacturers systems? I have seen a key switch with a
RIO position, again, nothing to do with forcing the person to look back, just
acknowledging the fact that when they back up the blades are turning. It still
comes down to the operator. NO different than being in a car/truck/boat/plane/motorcycle/snowmobile.
With any driving situation, there is a level of responsibility that comes with it and unfortunately
injuries/death are the result of many folks lack of it, even if only for a split second.

 

[jenkinsph]

Every manufacturer has to have this RIO system in place, and unfortunately it is migrating
into the CUTS with mower decks.
Some have mentioned it's more for legal reasons than safety, and I would venture
that is probably the biggest driver for the system. Transfer of Liability.
Once you put a switch like this on a mower, then the operator has taken
the liability of mowing in reverse away from the manufacturer and put it
on him/herself. Whether they actually look back or not doesn't matter.
There are many stories of the injuries caused by lawn mowers, both going
forward and reverse, kids falling off, people rolling down hills, all tragic.
Unfortunately, a switch like this does not fix the root of the problem, which
in many cases seems to be mostly caused by poor judgement of the operator.

What are the other manufacturers systems? I have seen a key switch with a
RIO position, again, nothing to do with forcing the person to look back, just
acknowledging the fact that when they back up the blades are turning. It still
comes down to the operator. NO different than being in a car/truck/boat/plane/motorcycle/snowmobile.
With any driving situation, there is a level of responsibility that comes with it and unfortunately
injuries/death are the result of many folks lack of it, even if only for a split second.

Well said Dutch ^^^^^^

 

[sklunk]

Carl Bert,
A few more points:

1) Your title was not very clear, so sorry if we all misunderstood. The X595 already IS rigged to mow in reverse, you just have to pull up on the switch. If you wanted the deck to be engaged all the time you should have said so in your title and we wouldn't have pointed you to the Owners Manual.
2) I agree with you that the switch should be on the rear of the fender, then you would physically have to turn around and look behind you before backing up. I assume they decided not to add another switch and wiring because it would have added much more cost and the customer would have complained.
3) I don't think anybody said the switch makes sense. They came about because of lawyers, plain and simple. I don't mean to sound callous to those whose children have been maimed, but people have been backing over family members for a long time. In the late 80's a lot of lawsuits started happening and ALL of the manufacturers started putting RIO switches on their machines. They are now a fact of life, just like seatbelts in cars.
4) How do you like the ROPS on your BX26? Because ROPS came about for the exact same reason. People were rolling tractors over and lawsuits started, then the Engineers came up with a way to protect the operator if the tractor rolled over. Many people complained about ROPS when they were first introduced but most people are used to them now. Some people still want to get under low doors so the manufacturers make folding ROPS but the user still has to choose to put the ROPS up. As somebody else said it passes the responsibility from the manufacturer to the operator.

Everybody needs to calm down and take a breath. RIO's are here to stay, and arguing about how useful they are is a waste of our time. I don't think anybody really "likes" them, but there will always be those who hate them and those who just learn to live with them. It's like Ford vs. Chevy -- you will never change each others minds!

 

[jenkinsph]

Carl Bert,
A few more points:

Everybody needs to calm down and take a breath. RIO's are here to stay, and arguing about how useful they are is a waste of our time. I don't think anybody really "likes" them, but there will always be those who hate them and those who just learn to live with them. It's like Ford vs. Chevy -- you will never change each others minds!

Life as well as government needs input from the people to improve. I would not admonish people who take a stand or position in their lives suggesting that apathy is a better route to take. " To each his own" better to voice an opinion and hold true to your beliefs than to be apathetic.

 

[Carl Bert]

Life as well as government needs input from the people to improve. I would not admonish people who take a stand or position in their lives suggesting that apathy is a better route to take. " To each his own" better to voice an opinion and hold true to your beliefs than to be apathetic.

So very well put!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Carl Bert]

Carl Bert,
A few more points:

1) Your title was not very clear, so sorry if we all misunderstood. The X595 already IS rigged to mow in reverse, you just have to pull up on the switch. If you wanted the deck to be engaged all the time you should have said so in your title and we wouldn't have pointed you to the Owners Manual.


3) I don't think anybody said the switch makes sense. They came about because of lawyers, plain and simple. I don't mean to sound callous to those whose children have been maimed, but people have been backing over family members for a long time. In the late 80's a lot of lawsuits started happening and ALL of the manufacturers started putting RIO switches on their machines. They are now a fact of life, just like seatbelts in cars.

4) How do you like the ROPS on your BX26? Because ROPS came about for the exact same reason. People were rolling tractors over and lawsuits started, then the Engineers came up with a way to protect the operator if the tractor rolled over. Many people complained about ROPS when they were first introduced but most people are used to them now. Some people still want to get under low doors so the manufacturers make folding ROPS but the user still has to choose to put the ROPS up. As somebody else said it passes the responsibility from the manufacturer to the operator.

To respond to #1, everyone didn't misunderstand, only a select few. Your first response to the thread was " I agree with Tim" who had told me to "learn to use the tractor properly", instead of rigging it. If you agreed with his statement, its pretty clear you knew what I meant. How that makes a difference at this point of the conversation, I do not know. But I did feel the need to respond to it.

Response to #3, If it doesn't make sense then why use it? Your going to use it because John Deere put it there? Even if (and it definitely does) it makes mowing in reverse MORE DANGEROUS? You would seriously rather risk the safety of the people around you rather then think for yourself and say "hey this thing doesn't make sense, I am going to figure out a way to by-pass it". RIO's may be a fact of life right now, but I don't have to live with it, and please don't compare this to seat belts. Seat belts save lives.

Response to #4, Its a B26 and I love them, and I will tell you why. If your tractor rolls over, they prevent you from getting crushed. Very simple, this is a safety measure that makes clear common sense. You see, you asked me a question and I answered it. Now can you do the same for me? Here goes, HOW DOES THE RIO SYSTEM MAKE IT SAFER TO MOW IN REVERSE? Anyone want to take bets whether or not he will answer?

 

[sklunk]

To respond to #1, everyone didn't misunderstand, only a select few. Your first response to the thread was " I agree with Tim" who had told me to "learn to use the tractor properly", instead of rigging it. If you agreed with his statement, its pretty clear you knew what I meant. How that makes a difference at this point of the conversation, I do not know. But I did feel the need to respond to it.

No, I didn't know you wanted to override it permanently, I thought you were just asking how to mow in reverse and you didn't know the tractor already could do that. I thought maybe you missed that part in the manual (or didn't have a manual since X595's aren't made anymore and maybe the previous owner didn't give you the manual) which is why I agreed with Tim and provided a direct link to the manual. Sorry for trying to answer the question ...

Response to #3, If it doesn't make sense then why use it? Your going to use it because John Deere put it there? Even if (and it definitely does) it makes mowing in reverse MORE DANGEROUS? You would seriously rather risk the safety of the people around you rather then think for yourself and say "hey this thing doesn't make sense, I am going to figure out a way to by-pass it". RIO's may be a fact of life right now, but I don't have to live with it, and please don't compare this to seat belts. Seat belts save lives.

So YOU think it makes mowing in reverse more dangerous and YOU think it should be bypassed. Why does that make you right and everybody else wrong? And how can you say they don't save lives like a seatbelt or ROPS -- do you know for sure that nobody was ever saved because someone used a RIO?

Response to #4, Its a B26 and I love them, and I will tell you why. If your tractor rolls over, they prevent you from getting crushed. Very simple, this is a safety measure that makes clear common sense. You see, you asked me a question and I answered it. Now can you do the same for me? Here goes, HOW DOES THE RIO SYSTEM MAKE IT SAFER TO MOW IN REVERSE? Anyone want to take bets whether or not he will answer?

It makes it safer to mow in reverse BECAUSE IT FORCES THE OPERATOR TO THINK ABOUT WHAT HE IS ABOUT TO DO BEFORE HE DOES IT. The deck shuts off so you have to consciously think about going in reverse and turning it back on. That pause will remind many people to turn around and look behind them before they engage the blades. This reminder may be just enough to keep a child (or dog) from being hit by sharp objects spinning near 2000 rpm. And you ignored folding ROPS in your reply. They only do their job if they are in the upright position, so you have to CHOOSE to put them like that or they won't save your life (Before you answer I agree this is not an issue with fixed ROPS like your B26 has. I personally disagree with folding ROPS but that is a discussion for a different thread).

I agree with you that people should be responsible for their own actions and we shouldn't need a RIO switch, but whether you believe it or not some people did misunderstand your first question. Let's just leave it at that and move on to other things.

 

[aczlan]

It makes it safer to mow in reverse BECAUSE IT FORCES THE OPERATOR TO THINK ABOUT WHAT HE IS ABOUT TO DO BEFORE HE DOES IT. The deck shuts off so you have to consciously think about going in reverse and turning it back on. That pause will remind many people to turn around and look behind them before they engage the blades. This reminder may be just enough to keep a child (or dog) from being hit by sharp objects spinning near 2000 rpm.

I disagree. My mother in law has a L100 series Deere with the RIO switch and all it does it make me say bad things about Deere engineers when I use it.
The system on the Cub Cadets that I used to use (LT1050 and GR3200) was much better as I only had to push it once per engine start and I could look behind me WHILE backing up.

Aaron Z

 

[Carl Bert]

No, I didn't know you wanted to override it permanently, I thought you were just asking how to mow in reverse and you didn't know the tractor already could do that. I thought maybe you missed that part in the manual (or didn't have a manual since X595's aren't made anymore and maybe the previous owner didn't give you the manual) which is why I agreed with Tim and provided a direct link to the manual. Sorry for trying to answer the question ...




So YOU think it makes mowing in reverse more dangerous and YOU think it should be bypassed. Why does that make you right and everybody else wrong? And how can you say they don't save lives like a seatbelt or ROPS -- do you know for sure that nobody was ever saved because someone used a RIO?




It makes it safer to mow in reverse BECAUSE IT FORCES THE OPERATOR TO THINK ABOUT WHAT HE IS ABOUT TO DO BEFORE HE DOES IT. The deck shuts off so you have to consciously think about going in reverse and turning it back on. That pause will remind many people to turn around and look behind them before they engage the blades. This reminder may be just enough to keep a child (or dog) from being hit by sharp objects spinning near 2000 rpm. And you ignored folding ROPS in your reply. They only do their job if they are in the upright position, so you have to CHOOSE to put them like that or they won't save your life (Before you answer I agree this is not an issue with fixed ROPS like your B26 has. I personally disagree with folding ROPS but that is a discussion for a different thread).

I agree with you that people should be responsible for their own actions and we shouldn't need a RIO switch, but whether you believe it or not some people did misunderstand your first question. Let's just leave it at that and move on to other things.

Part 1. I won't bother responding to this again

Part 2. Have you even read all of the posts? Its not just me thinking that RIO's are senseless, pretty much everyone feels the same way. I love a good debate, but I prefer one that makes sense. In all honesty, how old are you? I don't ask this as an insult. I really am curious as to your age.

Part 3. Do you even own one of these machines? The deck does not shut off, not even for a moment, it stays running the entire time.

Ok now for the mentally challenged, the RIO system forces the driver to look forward at the most critical time, (when he is beginning to mow in reverse). He pulls the switch, begins mowing in reverse, lets go of the switch, THEN LOOKS BEHIND HIM. At this point he has already traveled a good distance, and would have run over anyone or thing directly behind him. If what I just explained to you does not make clear common sense, then there is truly no way to reason with you. I give up and hope you enjoy your tractor with its RIO system. Let me guess, did you vote for Obama? Better yet, are you going to vote for him again?

 

[sklunk]

Part 1. I won't bother responding to this again

It made sense to you but I am not the only one who misunderstood it - there were others (you said so yourself) - so it wasn't completely clear. Since you can't seem to admit it this is the last time I will respond to this one too.

Part 2. Have you even read all of the posts? Its not just me thinking that RIO's are senseless, pretty much everyone feels the same way. I love a good debate, but I prefer one that makes sense. In all honesty, how old are you? I don't ask this as an insult. I really am curious as to your age.

Yes I have read every single post in this thread. You are correct that others think the RIO is senseless, but to say "pretty much everyone feels the same way" is naive. And then you go on to say that debates are great if you think they are (which is basically what you mean when you say you "prefer one that makes sense"). Age has nothing to do with maturity, and I have no reason to reveal my age to you, but just to make you happy I am in my mid-40's. Not old by any stretch, but definitely not green behind the ears either.

Part 3. Do you even own one of these machines? The deck does not shut off, not even for a moment, it stays running the entire time.

I don't own an X-Series but I own a GX345 just like your previous one (and a 345 that was "pre"-RIO). The RIO switch IS inconvenient but I personally think it serves a purpose. I already agreed with you in one of your earlier posts that it should be located behind you so you have to turn around to use it.

He pulls the switch, begins mowing in reverse, lets go of the switch, THEN LOOKS BEHIND HIM. At this point he has already traveled a good distance, and would have run over anyone or thing directly behind him. If what I just explained to you does not make clear common sense, then there is truly no way to reason with you.

Actually, in your example you have already made the decision to mow in reverse BEFORE the deck ever shuts off. Did you ever think of this scenario:

Someone is mowing along in forward then suddenly moves his foot to the reverse pedal and starts going in reverse WITHOUT EVER LOOKING BEHIND HIM. Without RIO the deck will remain running and chop anything he backs over. But because of the RIO the deck shuts off, the operator remembers and then turns and looks behind him, then engages the RIO/blades, then starts to mow in reverse.

Both scenarios make sense to me, but I'm sure you'll find a way to make the second one seem wrong and foolish. And as far as common sense, I already agreed with you that if people had common sense (and were responsible for their actions) we wouldn't need RIO in the first place.

I give up and hope you enjoy your tractor with its RIO system. Let me guess, did you vote for Obama? Better yet, are you going to vote for him again?

I never said I "enjoyed" my RIO system -- I said I learned to use it correctly. And no, I didn't vote for Obama, nor will I again (hard-core Republican here).

 

[sklunk]

I disagree. My mother in law has a L100 series Deere with the RIO switch and all it does it make me say bad things about Deere engineers when I use it.
The system on the Cub Cadets that I used to use (LT1050 and GR3200) was much better as I only had to push it once per engine start and I could look behind me WHILE backing up.

Aaron Z

Aaron,

On my GX345 you have to pull the PTO switch up to engage the blades in reverse but after that it springs back into its normal position and you can turn around and look behind you while backing up, just like the Cub you explained in your post. The only difference seems to be that you have to do it each time you go into reverse, not each engine start. Maybe the Deere L100 is different?

 

[jenkinsph]

I have both an L130 and the x749 and the switches are the same operationally. Off, on and momentary positions, to overide the rio function the momentary contacts would be jumpered together. This still leaves the off and on positions to function normally.

Here is a suggestion for those concerned about running over small children and pets in the yard. How about rear view mirrors on each side or rear sensors such as the auto makers use. Sure these may cost more but if you are really concerned you can't put a price on a toddlers safety either.

I try to be as safe as I can when mowing, no children at home but all the dogs are put in the house until finished. I also look behind me when backing up no matter what I am operating.

 

[aczlan]

Aaron,
On my GX345 you have to pull the PTO switch up to engage the blades in reverse but after that it springs back into its normal position and you can turn around and look behind you while backing up, just like the Cub you explained in your post. The only difference seems to be that you have to do it each time you go into reverse, not each engine start. Maybe the Deere L100 is different?

I haven't run hers much (I prefer the BX2660 or B7500 with are RIO free), but if you are mowing around something like a tree (ie: using the hydro transmission to go back and forth) you have to hold the button in. When you have one hand holding the button in and the other on the steering wheel it is hard to look behind you to see where you are going. If you only have to have one hand on the wheel, you can look behind you and see where you are going.
You are correct, that the difference is that the Cub has a setting where there is a button that you push once and you can backup without the deck shutting off for that "run cycle", far more convenient.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

Here is a suggestion for those concerned about running over small children and pets in the yard. How about rear view mirrors on each side or rear sensors such as the auto makers use. Sure these may cost more but if you are really concerned you can't put a price on a toddlers safety either.

Back bumper that shuts off the deck if you back into something?

I try to be as safe as I can when mowing, no children at home but all the dogs are put in the house until finished. I also look behind me when backing up no matter what I am operating.

Exactly, a little common sense and the use of safety "best practices" goes a LOOOOOOOOONG way.


Aaron Z

 

[Carl Bert]

Actually, in your example you have already made the decision to mow in reverse BEFORE the deck ever shuts off. Did you ever think of this scenario:

Someone is mowing along in forward then suddenly moves his foot to the reverse pedal and starts going in reverse WITHOUT EVER LOOKING BEHIND HIM. Without RIO the deck will remain running and chop anything he backs over. But because of the RIO the deck shuts off, the operator remembers and then turns and looks behind him, then engages the RIO/blades, then starts to mow in reverse.

Both scenarios make sense to me, but I'm sure you'll find a way to make the second one seem wrong and foolish. And as far as common sense, I already agreed with you that if people had common sense (and were responsible for their actions) we wouldn't need RIO in the first place.



I never said I "enjoyed" my RIO system -- I said I learned to use it correctly. And no, I didn't vote for Obama, nor will I again (hard-core Republican here).

Yes in that scenario where you accidentally hit the reverse pedal (that is what you meant, right?), the RIO system is useful, but it would do the same thing if the switch was located on the back fender. Wouldn't it?

I am a very tall man. I actually have to lean forward to reach the PTO switch, making it nearly impossible to completely turn and look behind me. With the X595 you need to start moving in reverse before you can let go of the switch. So in my opinion, instead of the switch adding a margin of safety, it actually takes a good amount away.

How about this scenario: A man gets in his car, puts it in reverse, does not turn around and puts the pedal to the floor. Dangerous right? Why don't cars have RIO systems, or for that matter large tractors or ATV's. Along with driving a motor vehicle comes a certain amount of responsibility and liability. If you choose to operate whatever you're driving in an unsafe manner, its just an accident waiting to happen, and theres not a whole lot that anyone can do to stop it.

I am all for safety, and if a system is put in place that makes something safer, I will use it. But I won't use one just because its there.

Hey if you need to know how to rig your GX345 to mow in reverse (without pulling the switch, just to be CLEAR), I can show you? LOL

 

[jenkinsph]

Back bumper that shuts off the deck if you back into something?

Exactly, a little common sense and the use of safety "best practices" goes a LOOOOOOOOONG way.


Aaron Z

I will also say that using the pen cap to keep the mower blades engaged makes it far easier to turn around and look behind me too. I don't need or want an additional distraction and there is no substitute for acting and operating in a responsible manner. That said in the mower manufacturers defense I can readily see that they can not police how these machines are used and or operated. These manufacturers need to do what works legally to protect themselves and that is the purpose of the RIO switch. If you run over a small child and have a properly working RIO switch then the manufacturer may be off the hook but you will still be responsible for everything, so for the homeowner mowing his lawn nothing legally has changed. If you disconnect the RIO switch or modify it in any way you are still responsible for everything and can make the case for a lawyer suing you much easier. It is my opinion worthless or not that the RIO switch does little to protect the child, pet or the homeowner. I look at the RIO switch, headphones and tunes in the same light a distraction I will do without.

A bumper with a micro switch might help in some instances and can add an additional layer of safety, seems like a good idea to me.

 

[sklunk]

Carl,

That post was much more calm. I'm glad to see we can begin to bury the hatchet and appreciate each other's point of view. Here are my calm (and honestly trying to be helpful) explanations:

Yes in that scenario where you accidentally hit the reverse pedal (that is what you meant, right?), the RIO system is useful, but it would do the same thing if the switch was located on the back fender. Wouldn't it?

How about this scenario: A man gets in his car, puts it in reverse, does not turn around and puts the pedal to the floor. Dangerous right? Why don't cars have RIO systems, or for that matter large tractors or ATV's. Along with driving a motor vehicle comes a certain amount of responsibility and liability. If you choose to operate whatever you're driving in an unsafe manner, its just an accident waiting to happen, and theres not a whole lot that anyone can do to stop it.

I didn't mean accidentally hitting the reverse pedal, I meant going in reverse without looking back first. Your example of the man in his car is the exact same thing. Apparently many people mow on their tractors and go into reverse without looking back first. Those people are irresponsible and are the reason the RIO came about, but there is nothing we can do about careless people.

I am a very tall man. I actually have to lean forward to reach the PTO switch, making it nearly impossible to completely turn and look behind me. With the X595 you need to start moving in reverse before you can let go of the switch. So in my opinion, instead of the switch adding a margin of safety, it actually takes a good amount away.

But that was my previous point. If you try to go backwards and the deck stops, that should remind you to:
1) Look behind you to make sure it is safe.
2) Turn around to face forward.
2) Lift up on the RIO switch while starting to go in reverse.
3) Let go of the RIO switch and continue to mow in reverse. At this point you can turn around to look backward and the deck should stay engaged.

I can appreciate your trouble in reaching the switch if you are tall. But you shouldn't need to keep one hand on the switch while trying to turn around and look backwards (unless the RIO operation is different on the X-Series).

Hey if you need to know how to rig your GX345 to mow in reverse (without pulling the switch, just to be CLEAR), I can show you? LOL

No thanks, I already know how to override it on the GX, I just choose to use it as designed. It doesn't cause me as much frustration as it does you so it hasn't bothered me as much.

You will never see me disagree with you about common sense and personally responsibility. Again, I feel the same way -- if it weren't for people with no common sense we wouldn't have RIO switches and wouldn't even be having this conversation. Unfortunately a small amount of careless people screwed it up for the rest of us. But we will always have people like that so we will always have "lawyer-proof" features added to our equipment.

Now I'm actually headed out to mow. Think I'll use my non-RIO 345. Enjoy the (hot has Hades here) night!