Antenna for FM, UHF, VHF?

[dmccarty]

O TBN Hams, TBN Hams, where art thou TBN Hams? :laughing:

We are tired of paying Directv half a decent car payment each month, and finding nothing to watch, so we are getting ready to cancel the service.

We are using Netflix and Amazon Prime for streaming but we do watch some gardening and cooking shows on PBS. These shows might be online but if we can get them over the air we might as well do so. Streaming works for us but we only have 1.5mb down which is going to limit how many shows we can watch at the same time.

The house is on top of a hill, not a tall hill, but there is a cell tower a mile away and the tower's warning light is about eye level with us. I don't want the antenna outside on a pole if I can avoid it. I think the PBS broadcast antenna is 15-20 miles away. I just want to stick the antenna in the attic and drop the coax into our wiring "closet." I see that some antennas don't handle channels lower than 6 and we need channel 4. And we might as well have FM reception as well.

I did find that the FCC has a website that shows the signal strength at your house that might of interest to others.

Any suggestions on what antenna we should get, look for or avoid?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[EarPlug]

Try Antennas Direct. Have used the in the past. Very knowledgeable. They don't try and sell you what you don't need.

 

[k0ua]

Roofing materiel's can hurt depending on what they are at UHF especially., Obviously a metal roof is a no go.. but you will lose several db (decibels) even with shingles.. also watch coax losses. Longer run= more loss, smaller coax=more loss Higher frequency=more loss. I have no direct experience with receiving digital TV on antennas. As I am on cable, and watch streaming. But I have 40 years of experience with VHF and UHF , and HF for that matter. An outside antenna will always outperform and inside antenna. But inside antennas can work, and if you are over the threshold, with digital your signal will look good. One other possible problem is refractions and reflections from other metal objects in the vicinity of the antenna in the attic. You mentioned channel 4.. is that the same as the old channel 4 on lowband vhf? if so it is 66 to 72 MHZ so losses thru the attic shingles will be less than a UHF channel. but problems from nearby metal will be worse. Also this antenna will be physically large with longest element near 7 foot long. But sometimes a channel like channel 4 is not really the old channel 4, there were temporary channels for some stations, and some have moved back to the old channel assignments.. I have lost track of the channel mess.

James K0UA

 

[CBW1999]

How to Make a Homemade TV Antenna | TV Antenna Plans

I've played around with a couple of these ideas. The most effective I have found is the single coat hanger model. I have about a 30 mile radius to the transmitters I get and don't have any problems. I have good line of sight from the first floor for the most part.

http://www.diytvantennas.com/
This is my favorite site for simple and effective plans. Although my wife keeps wondering where her hangers go to

Another, more technical site:
www.freeantennas.com

has some interesting ideas for directional antennae for wireless access points. I know there is another thread somewhere talking about using wireless cameras on the farm and overcoming transmission limitations.

FWIW- about a year ago we did the same thing, dumped satellite and use Netflix and over the air. Don't regret it at all.

 

[Oaktree]

Keep in mind that while the station still may market themselves as "Channel 4", the chances are that since the digital switch-over they are actually broadcasting on a UHF frequency. There are almost no low band (ch 2-6) VHF, and relatively few high band (ch 7-13) VHF signals left. For reasons I don't completely understand, digital signals don't work very well at those lower frequencies.

A UHF outdoor antenna capable of receiving a station 15 miles away should be fairly unobtrusive.

 

[Dishpointer]

Go to this website and fill in your address. It will show the location of your local station's antennas and what kind of antenna you will need to choose to receive the stations. AntennaWeb - Address

 

[dmccarty]

Roofing materiel's can hurt depending on what they are at UHF especially., Obviously a metal roof is a no go.. but you will lose several db (decibels) even with shingles.. also watch coax losses. Longer run= more loss, smaller coax=more loss Higher frequency=more loss. I have no direct experience with receiving digital TV on antennas. As I am on cable, and watch streaming. But I have 40 years of experience with VHF and UHF , and HF for that matter. An outside antenna will always outperform and inside antenna. But inside antennas can work, and if you are over the threshold, with digital your signal will look good. One other possible problem is refractions and reflections from other metal objects in the vicinity of the antenna in the attic. You mentioned channel 4.. is that the same as the old channel 4 on lowband vhf? if so it is 66 to 72 MHZ so losses thru the attic shingles will be less than a UHF channel. but problems from nearby metal will be worse. Also this antenna will be physically large with longest element near 7 foot long. But sometimes a channel like channel 4 is not really the old channel 4, there were temporary channels for some stations, and some have moved back to the old channel assignments.. I have lost track of the channel mess.

James K0UA

No metal in the roof. There is some duct work in the attic but the antenna will be above the metal.

It took quite of bit of digging last night to find the actual channel for the station and it is channel four.

The shortest path cable wise would be from the attic. Outside mount would be much longer and I really don't want to mess with the a pole or wall/eave mount unless I really have too. The antenna's I was looking at were one the long side but we have room up in the attic so it really does not matter.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Go to this website and fill in your address. It will show the location of your local station's antennas and what kind of antenna you will need to choose to receive the stations. AntennaWeb - Address

Thanks for that link! I think it has been posted on TBN before but I forgot about it.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[boggen]

i have built a metal wire antenna, and also tried taking a piece of plywood and placing alumnum foil over it. to make it omni directional.

i have also tried powered antennas you can buy at local stores. that plug into 110v outlet and then to TV.

and then generic rabbit ears.

they all can work, and you may get mixed results pending on your location. by far the best has been the DIY metal wire antenna made from cloth hangers. i have not had to move the antenna once! once i initially got it set just right in the living room. all the other stuff tried i had to move antenna to get different TV channels.

though if i had a choice, i would most likely go with a couple different styles of antennas mounted high on roof, or on a tower. with option to rotate one of the antennas from inside the house.
===============

for starters just try a cheapest rabbit ears / circle like antenna you can find. as in a couple bucks. and see what happens, you might be just right for receiving all your nearby stations. you may need to mo

=================
problem with over the air single, more so no with "digital" is when you loose signal or the signal is weak. you loose the entire picture, and pending on quality of digital tuner you may get BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP GARGLE BLEEP GARGLE high pitched noise as turner tries to get a good signal.

if you live in a dense neighbor (in the city) or a lot of metal obstructions around. every hour may be a challenge for you, trying to get a signal as the waves bounce all over the place causing extra static.

 

[dmccarty]

Keep in mind that while the station still may market themselves as "Channel 4", the chances are that since the digital switch-over they are actually broadcasting on a UHF frequency. There are almost no low band (ch 2-6) VHF, and relatively few high band (ch 7-13) VHF signals left. For reasons I don't completely understand, digital signals don't work very well at those lower frequencies.

A UHF outdoor antenna capable of receiving a station 15 miles away should be fairly unobtrusive.

The station is on channel four.

I just don't want to put up an outside antenna due to the extra work, longer coax run and we are on the top of a hill. We have had lightning bolts hit all around the house. The last one was 125ish feet away and took out a large oak. My hope is that the antenna in the attic would be less likely to attract lightning than it mounted outside on a pole.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

....
if you live in a dense neighbor (in the city) or a lot of metal obstructions around. every hour may be a challenge for you, trying to get a signal as the waves bounce all over the place causing extra static.

What really need a single antenna to serve the TVs and receiver in the house. We do have some trees between us and the transmission towers but we also just cut down some of those trees which will help. Since we are on a hill I think our reception to the channel we want the most should be pretty good. One of links in this discussion said the tower was only 11ish miles away. What is funny is that we could care less about reception to ABC, CBS, NBC, or even the independent stations. We simply have not watched the channels in a decade. We just want to watch our cooking and gardening shows that are on Sunday afternoon.

We don't have any metal or other obstructions besides the trees which is why I think we can get away with an attic mounted antenna to pick up a tower 10-15 miles away.

Later,
Dan

 

[kg7il]

You may find that almost anything works reasonably well. You can try something cheap.

I have demonstrated with a Hooped UHF antenna that used to come with a lot of little TV's.
I have also used zip (lamp) cord to show folks. If you get a reasonable signal, then almost any purchased antenna should work.

The links provided above for the home-made antennaes are the place to start.

I personally have tried older FM/VHF/UHF TV antennaes (Log Periodic) with great success. Inside Control for Rotator made it Fantastic.
I have also used a small (8x8) amplified array on the motorhome. (the standard motorhome antennae works fine also).

You may wish to rotate the antennae to pick up the local (but distributed) channels. WebApps show the headings required.
Installing and operating a rotator in an attic can be either very easy if un-obstructed or very difficult if their are supports in the way.

Purchased Antennaes can be inexpensive. I have used Solid Signal and am happy with their service.
TV Antennas & Supplies - Shop at SolidSignal.com

Unfortunately, my new location is in a (signal) hole and I havent worked the required height to get a clear shot at the stations.
I haven't even got my ham antennaes up yet

 

[k0ua]

The station is on channel four.

I just don't want to put up an outside antenna due to the extra work, longer coax run and we are on the top of a hill. We have had lightning bolts hit all around the house. The last one was 125ish feet away and took out a large oak. My hope is that the antenna in the attic would be less likely to attract lightning than it mounted outside on a pole.

Later,
Dan

True, it would be safer. Notice I used the word safer.. not safe. Best way is give it a try. I noticed our local "channel 3" never moved back to the old channel 3.. they are on UHF now..I looked up the station on the web site posted.. If anyone want info on how to decode the jargon of -71dbm and HAAT and other phrases on the fcc site I can help.. but probably would take a book to describe (I am noted for that anyway) and the little icons that the fcc put on the map of "poor signal" "fair signal" "good signal" are the bottom line anyway.

As for inside antenna working. they can work.. I have 1 VHF and an HF antenna in the attic. I have worked all over Europe and South America and a little pacific area on the hf wire antenna before I got my tower built and an outside array.. notice I say they can work, I did not say they are best. No attic antenna I know of will beat the same antenna outside and in the clear..They are compromises, but life is a compromise.. And you have your reasons for not wanting the outside antenna, I say give the attic antenna a try, you don't have a lot to lose. Might work great.

James K0UA

 

[Aging TOO Fast]

O TBN Hams, TBN Hams, where art thou TBN Hams? :laughing:

We are tired of paying Directv half a decent car payment each month, and finding nothing to watch, so we are getting ready to cancel the service.

We are using Netflix and Amazon Prime for streaming but we do watch some gardening and cooking shows on PBS. These shows might be online but if we can get them over the air we might as well do so. Streaming works for us but we only have 1.5mb down which is going to limit how many shows we can watch at the same time.

The house is on top of a hill, not a tall hill, but there is a cell tower a mile away and the tower's warning light is about eye level with us. I don't want the antenna outside on a pole if I can avoid it. I think the PBS broadcast antenna is 15-20 miles away. I just want to stick the antenna in the attic and drop the coax into our wiring "closet." I see that some antennas don't handle channels lower than 6 and we need channel 4. And we might as well have FM reception as well.

I did find that the FCC has a website that shows the signal strength at your house that might of interest to others.

Any suggestions on what antenna we should get, look for or avoid?

Thanks,
Dan

hi
You might need to see your pbs tv station on channel 4 (which naturally was a low- VHF frequency- OLD analog tv days before digital conversion) most likely it is being broadcast on a UHF frequency that the (digital)TV tuner translates to be seen at channel 4 position on tuner selector.

You need to see if any of your local TV stations are broadcast over
hi-VHF frequencies, 7or 8-13,
stations could be broadcast On hi-VHF in digital. (you just need to know that the channel number - can be, different than the assigned frequency or channel- the station is transmitted on. the digital tuner translates it)

Low power stations might still be analog broadcast, though most are going to be converting over time.

A lot of towns/ cities have both VHF/UHF stations which means you need a VHF/ UHF antenna-
Not just a UHF Antenna.
There are "Digital" antennas that look like an oven rack ( or fly swatter), they are ONLY UHF. Won't work if you have any VHF broadcast stations.

Most of those "digital HD" set top antennas are probably kinda useless.

Typically Radio shack staff are CLUELESS!!!!!!! regarding antenna equipment ( if the store even has real antennas).

Channel master has a full range of antennas might checkout winegard brand also.

 

[Zick]

Try this to see which stations are near you. I tried the others listed on here and they were only showing about 1/2 of the stations that I am actually pulling in right now.
TV Fool


I have a large TV antenna that I picked up from Menards in my attic and it works pretty good. I get anywhere from 14-20 stations depending on which way I have the antenna rotated. Farthest one I picked are ~40 miles away. The next furthest are ~65 miles away and I don't think I can get them without putting the antenna up on a poll outside.
I think this is the one I got, it's pretty large.
30 Element TV Antenna at Menards

 

[dmccarty]

...

You may wish to rotate the antennae to pick up the local (but distributed) channels. WebApps show the headings required.
Installing and operating a rotator in an attic can be either very easy if un-obstructed or very difficult if their are supports in the way.

Purchased Antennaes can be inexpensive. I have used Solid Signal and am happy with their service.
TV Antennas & Supplies - Shop at SolidSignal.com
...

I have looked at rotating the antenna but I think that will be difficult depending on the size of the antenna since it will be in the attic. Plus a rotator is more money. :laughing: Honestly, we really only want to pick up one channel and we might have multiple TVs connected so rotating is not needed and/or would be interesting to use.

I will check out that link!

Thanks,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

True, it would be safer. Notice I used the word safer.. not safe. Best way is give it a try. ...

As for inside antenna working. they can work.. I have 1 VHF and an HF antenna in the attic. I have worked all over Europe and South America and a little pacific area on the hf wire antenna before I got my tower built and an outside array.. notice I say they can work, I did not say they are best. No attic antenna I know of will beat the same antenna outside and in the clear..They are compromises, but life is a compromise.. And you have your reasons for not wanting the outside antenna, I say give the attic antenna a try, you don't have a lot to lose. Might work great.

James K0UA

I agree the inside antenna might be safer. I wish it was SAFE. :laughing: The lightning is so bad around the house I am wondering if it is worth the added risk to pick watch a couple of TV shows. I know of at least four trees within 500 feet of the house that have been hit by lightning. :shocked: I saw the last bolt that hit a tree. I really don't want that power hitting the house.

Per previous posts, I might just try a cheap indoor antenna and see what happens. A larger antenna would be better since we are trying to pull in a radio station that can have iffy reception and I think an antenna in the attic would do a good job picking up the signal.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Try this to see which stations are near you. I tried the others listed on here and they were only showing about 1/2 of the stations that I am actually pulling in right now.
TV Fool


I have a large TV antenna that I picked up from Menards in my attic and it works pretty good. I get anywhere from 14-20 stations depending on which way I have the antenna rotated. Farthest one I picked are ~40 miles away. The next furthest are ~65 miles away and I don't think I can get them without putting the antenna up on a poll outside.
I think this is the one I got, it's pretty large.
30 Element TV Antenna at Menards

That is good info. I was looking at some of the larger sized antenna's one of which was RCA. The one in my wishlist is a smaller RCA unit so I will look for larger ones.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[mjarrels]

I'm about to ditch directtv too. Hate the programing, if you watch a show at noon or miss it, don't worry, it will be back on at 2 pm, 4 pm and 6 pm. Same shows on repeatedly on most all channels every day.

mark

 

[Redbug]

Hey Dan...This is the antenna I have. I can recommend it. Take a look...
Winegard Metrostar, omnidirectional TV antenna, Bi-Directional , Sensar TV antenna, small antennas that can be installed in attic or on roof top good for all digital and HDTV